Posted on November 1 at 3:07 p.m.

typo...it's been nice having a dialogue with you. I'm pretty sure if I met you on the street we could easily have a pleasant conversation. We both have different life styles I'm sure, but I believe in your right to speak your opinions and to live the way you choose. I think you feel the same about me. So...I'm going to close this posting thread with a declaration!
I am a person who believes in a God who has a definite plan for all of his children. You have been very skillfull in writing your opinions and facts as you know them, but on moral principle, gay marriage will never hold water for me and here is why:

I believe there is a prophet on the earth who guides those who choose to listen.

This might be a little more information than you want to read but.....this is what our prophet has said:

"We solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
All human beings-male and female- are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal idenity and purpose.
In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eteranl life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.
The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for his children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife."

It goes on and I know you aren't going to be converted to my beliefs, but you understand why I believe as I do, that in principle, there is no place for gay marriage in God's plan.

On Friday I was listening to Rush Limbaugh and he said something that caught my ear....I quote:
If Proposition 8 passes in California, I will believe in divine intervention". I thought to myself, he doesn't know how true that is. I've done all I can do to help this measure pass, now it is up to the people...who I'm hoping are softening their hearts with a little help from God.

Does my being a Mormon make you think less of me?
I hope not.

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 30 at 5:56 p.m.

typo...here is something for you to digest....

Some same sex marriage supporters compare the current conflict to the civil rights movement. ( this is you ) A poorer comparison does not exist. (I lie. Comparing Prop 8 to the Potato Famine of 1845 would be pretty bad.) This is not a civil rights issue. Wait. Let me say that again. *This is not a civil rights issue.* Civil rights are implicated when a “fundamental right” protected by the due process and equal protection clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment is restricted. There is no fundamental right to gay marriage.

An important distinction must be made here. Common usage of the term “rights” conflates two distinct legal meanings: those rights that are specially provided for under the Constitution (e.g., free speech), and those rights that exist simply because no law has been passed restricting them. The latter type of right is not protected under the law and is subject to potential regulation. The former type is protected and cannot be withheld; however it must be constitutionally-derived. To expand “fundamental rights” outside this boundary would unravel the fabric of American law. Now to get technical. The Supreme Court has recognized a right to the marriage institution as defined by law. And, as acknowledged by every court adjudicating the issue, both gay and straight citizens have equal access to this right. Straight or gay, a citizen is allowed to “marry” as defined by law—i.e. to couple with a person of the opposite gender. What same-sex marriage supporters are arguing for is the “fundamental right” to couple with any person. This is not a recognized “fundamental right.” In fact, the California Supreme Court’s entire premise for the “fundamental right” of same sex marriage rests on a misinterpretation of the “right to privacy,” a uniquely Californian entitlement concocted by a legislative staffer in the 1970s. It is on this “privacy right” that California’s court-fabricated “right” to same-sex marriage derives.

Want to read the whole article...go to: http://gr8prop8deb8.blogspot.com/

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 29 at 9:30 p.m.

Who are the innocent....and what rights are being eliminated? Let me give you a long standing definition...

mar⋅riage 

the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

Maybe we should add another definition to the dictionary because this is the way it has been...

Gay Unions

The social institution under which a man and a man or a woman and a woman establish their decision to live together with legal commitments, ceremonies, etc.

That sounds good doesn't it? All rights to live without harm and function in society are embodied in both definitions. Why do you need to use the word 'marry' when its never applied before in all the thousands of years that the institution as been around. What meaning does it add to a gay union that seems so all important. Does it change any day to day experiences for any body?

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 28 at 4:52 p.m.

You could be right....or you could be wrong. It's a slippery slope that nobody can know....unless of course you own a crystal ball.
I'm not willing to bet on it...that's why I voted yes on Prop 8.

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 28 at 10:52 a.m.

Well, I appreciate your comment...at least we agree partially on that. What do you think of these stories?

Dagmar and Arnost Cepica, a Christian couple in Prince Edward Island who operated a bed and breakfast in their own home, refused to rent their bedroom to two homosexual men. In 2001, they were charged and convicted of discrimination, and rather than fight the matter in court, they closed their business down.

Then there was the 1996 high profile case of professional printer Scott Brockie, who refused to print material for the Canadian Gay and Lesbian Archives, because he felt doing so would violate his religious beliefs. He was fined $5000 on February 24, 2000, and ordered to print the material anyway. Mr. Brockie took his case to the Ontario Supreme Court, then to the Ontario Court of Appeal and lost both times. The court has ordered Mr. Brockie to pay his opponents legal costs of $40,000. His total legal bills surpass $170,000. Like myself, he has set up a trust fund to help him with this burden, as he cannot afford it himself.

Canada is a bit farther down the 'equal rights for all' road than we are. In case you want to read more...you can find it at this web address: http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 27 at 1:32 p.m.

typo.....
what do you say about people who write things like this.....?

An article from the Daily Kos

As a matter of fact, the No on Prop 8 folks told me recently that the "Protect Marriage" campaign has raised $30 million dollars--over half of it from the Mormon Church. Now, I have nothing personally against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints…
But when the church and its members invest millions of dollars in an attempt to write discrimination into my state's constitution and divorce my friend Brian against his will, there will be hell to pay.
Here's what I'm asking for:
Find us some ammo.
Use any LEGAL tool at your disposal. Use OpenSecrets to see if these donors have contributed to...shall we say...less than honorable causes, or if any one of these big donors has done something otherwise egregious. If so, we have a legitimate case to make the Yes on 8 campaign return their contributions, or face a bunch of negative publicity.

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 24 at 2:29 p.m.

My children are all grown and having children of their own. They have all kept the values we ( my husband and I ) taught them, and I'm very grateful. I do believe that there is a certain age when it's easier to 'understand' alternative lifestyles without too much confusion, and it's not in grade school.
Do you believe that every homosexual is born that way...and not one person is gay because of some kind of abuse, confusion or manipulation?

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 23 at 7:17 p.m.

Personally, I believe the definition of tolerance has changed....

The traditional definition of tolerance means "to recognize and respect (others' beliefs, practices, etc.) without necessarily agreeing or sympathizing" with them. This attitude--that everyone has a right to his own opinion--is what tolerance means to most of us.

But today's definition is vastly different. This new tolerance means to consider every individual's beliefs, values, lifestyle, and truth claims as equally valid. So not only does everyone have an equal right to his beliefs, but all beliefs are equal. All values are equal. All lifestyles are equal. All truth claims are equal. The new tolerance goes beyond respecting a person's rights; it demands praise and endorsement of that person's beliefs, values, and lifestyle.

This is my fear...that if prop 8 fails, gays will even be more demanding of praise, and endorsement in our schools and churches. Opting our kids out will only be a bandaid on a growing concern for people who do not want their children exposed.

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 23 at 1:11 p.m.

typo,
Why do you think this has become an issue today after so many years of homosexuals living on this planet? I'm interested in your view.

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad

Posted on October 22 at 10:03 a.m.

It’s about protecting the institution of marriage. No one is being denied any civil rights. Embodied within the California laws of "civil unions" are ALL of the "civil rights" that married couples have. The only distinction is that "married" is the traditional family anchored by a man and a woman "married" to each other. This model has sustained healthy civilizations for thousands of years. No one is being denied any "civil right" the "civil union" laws assure this.
So far, courts in Maryland, Indiana, New York, Washington, Florida, Arizona, Vermont, New Jersey, the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, the European Court of Justice, The U.N. Human Rights Committee, and the European Court of Human Rights have held that gays have no "right" to marry. Only split decisions in two state courts have said otherwise. In both of these legal decisions it was clear (if you bother to read them) that the justices in the majority were basing their positions, not on legally defined arguments/precedents, as they are supposed to, but were creating new legislation from the bench.

On Yes on Proposition 8: Gay Marriage Deprives Some Children of a Mom or a Dad