Posted on May 1 at 10:16 a.m.

I have enjoyed this debate immensely and I could go on and on if I had the character space! It is so much better than arguing with my two and four year old! Though, they don't help much when trying to think out a clear rebuttal! I do respect your opinions and I believe it is really important to hear the other side when jumping into any campaign. Know your opponent, right?! I'm not sure that either of us could bring the other to our "side" even if we both have good arguments.

That said, I do not live in Carp. I am in Sacramento County and yet when I heard about what was going on, I was affected. The only explanation I could come up with was as I stated before, is that I truly feel I identify with the Warrior name, the head, and all of the rest of the imagery as silly as that may sound. Of course, if it is changed, my identity is still what it is. I will always be a Warrior, but I will be VERY sad to see it go.

Cheers! (I was totally going to say that on my last post, yesterday!)

Mary

On Warrior’s Cry

Posted on May 1 at 10:15 a.m.

Getting back to the importance of the Warrior name and head to the community. I believe earlier in this discussion (before I was involved) you argued that you did not have to be a Carpinterian to relate to this story and while I am sure there are those who could, I think it IS a special circumstance. I read that you were a Don. I'm not sure how long ago you attended, but I can tell you growing up in Carp, it was very much a small town community. When I went to CHS, I think the student tally reached somewhere near 700. We were a tight knit school. One thing that united us was being Warriors. When my brothers were Warriors, I looked forward to the day that I could wear the red and white proudly. Also, as you mentioned, CHS is the only (public) school in Carp, so you pretty much knew from grade school you would be a Warrior at CHS. It's not like one would aspire to that, but simply it was something to look forward to. Of course, had CHS, from the get go, been named the Dolphins, or Seals or what have you, the same pride would have been instilled. The same sense of community and unity. The same fight, I GUARANTEE YOU, would be taking place if for instance. To many, myself included, this is about tradition and history.

I read your Confederate Flag statements, and to be honest, though I realize it can be viewed as an extremely offensive icon, I would still say it has it's place in history. I still will teach my children what it looked like, and what it stood for. I think the problem with the CF, is that too often it is used as a symbol of hatred. THAT, I DO NOT AGREE WITH. I have similar feelings about the swastika, but I digress. My point is that I think it would be difficult to find anyone behind keeping the Warrior head who sees it as an insult to Native Americans. Instead, I think you would hear that it stands for pride, honor, and dignity. When I look to the head, I see a strong and regal leader who is intent on achieving his goals, whatever they may be. Earlier, you implied that unless one is Native American, s/he is not really entitled to giving an opinion on whether or not the imagery is not offensive. I would ask you then, are you Native American? If not, how can you really say that the icons are offensive. I am not trying to be facetious, I am merely saying I understand you being offended when someone makes a blanket statement about Mexicans or their culture but if an Irishman joined your argument, he may have good points, but he cannot really speak from a personal experience of being Mexican. Using your reasoning, you would be just as "un"-entitled to giving your opinion as I am. LOL so this is all in vain!! LOL (Kidding!)

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Posted on May 1 at 10:14 a.m.

David,

I agree, I was thinking the same thing about wishing we could debate face to face, because I really do LOVE a good debate - especially when my opponent puts up a great defense (or offense). Oh, this is coming in THREE PARTS! LOL

As I read your comments over, I find myself agreeing with much of what you say. It COULD be any icon or name and the achievements would be the same. I am not so ignorant to think that a name or image is what makes the students excel or the athletics victorious.

I think what we disagree on is how important the name and image IS to the community. I also think that they would agree that this not a crucial, life-threatening cause, but that it is a big deal in and for the community of Carp. Like I said before, there are many prominent, well-respected community leaders who are behind keeping the head. Now I don't know the personal politics or views of each of these people, but I would dare say this is the most important "fight" on their agenda. I would not be surprised to see many of them as great financial and vocal proponents to any of the presidential candidates, alternative energy, or some other crucial issue. This happens to be an issue in their small community, so they are doing what they deem necessary to have their voices heard in this arena.

While the students may have started much of the protesting, many older alumni have joined in and taken over. They are now protesting peacefully, by obtaining permits as well as making efforts so they do not clash with the "peace marchers". Though there is outrage, in my opinion, it is hard to argue with one, their right to voice their opinions, and two, the fact that this is anything less than a social/government studies lesson for the kids who can experience the "right" way to go about change. Oh, and fwiw, I think many protests that make national news, are ridiculous, but I suppose that is because I don't necessarily agree with them!

On Warrior’s Cry

Posted on April 30 at 5:12 p.m.

David,

I can agree with you that some of the students are probably joining in the rallies, walkouts and protests merely for the attention or just to be a part of the commotion. Believe me, I know all about that being a former UCLA student. Students would join in protests there just to have a "good" excuse to skip class, regardless of their feelings on the subject of protest. However, I have to draw the line at the many, many alumni and locals who have joined in the protest. At this point, there is an online petition to save the Warrior head and it has nearly 2000 signatures from people of all ages. The prerequisite to sign is that you are past, present or future CHS alumni, or Carp resident. I have seen many prominent, intelligent community figures' names on the petition and in my opinion, they are NOT just spoiled brats who are mad because they are having something taken away from them. I think it comes down to the fact that there really ISN'T a clear cut answer here - there is no "law" or guideline that can clear it all up.

As for the head, and imagery - I think it in itself stands for pride and tradition. Have you seen the Warrior head? I always thought it was majestic and regal. At UCLA there is the Bruin in the middle of campus, and I only bring it up because it is an image that the students and faculty felt very proud - even protective of. I feel a large percentage of the students, faculty and community feels this way regarding the Warrior head. We also have a mural at the school designed and created by a former student, and I can tell you it is a truly breathtaking work of art. I am just trying to make the point that the images used by CHS really could be up to an individual's interpretation. While some may see it as offensive, others may not. I know there are Native Americans on both sides of this debate, btw.

I still feel this was somewhat of a rash decision on the part of the board. Obviously, there are a lot of strong feelings in both camps and I think, to make a decision after one meeting of general discussion was not the best idea.

You also mentioned that people are forgetting that the board agreed to keep the name Warriors. Well, I honestly believe if the Native American symbol must be removed, it will be a matter of time before the name is changed as well.

I realize in the grand scheme of things this may not seem to be such a big deal. I realize that there are things in life much more dire than this, however, this subject has us both turning to our computers in order to state our opinions, so one might say it has SOME merit, true?

--femmesavante

On Warrior’s Cry

Posted on April 30 at 10:37 a.m.

I am a former Warrior and I have to say reading about this whole thing makes me upset. Now I am all about listening to concerns and opinions of others (meaning the child and family who feel offended) but does anyone think that the school board was wrong to make this decision without listening to the input of current/past students or the community? If there had been an open discussion with all sides of the equation voicing their opinions, perhaps this might sit differently for those who are protesting the change. There is an immense amount of tradition that comes with the Warrior name and imagery. I am someone who does not know my heritage (being adopted) so it is my experiences from my past that help me piece together my identity. I am a Warrior. Just like I am a Bruin and a past Carpinterian.

Also, I wanted to comment on what David said about wishing these students/people would "get excited about something that mattered". I guess I see it differently. This DOES matter to these students. It matters to the alumni as well as a large part of the community. How can anyone say that something we feel so passionately about is not important? I actually applaud the students. They have organized themselves and they are fighting for a cause they believe in. Today it is their Warrior, tomorrow it could be any number of the "things that matter" that David listed like, foreign policy, youth violence, alternative energy, etc.

On Warrior’s Cry