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Posted on December 20 at 7:45 a.m.
Perhaps it's time for the children to arrive.
This appeared, at December 20, 2014 at 5:49 a.m.:
"…most of you are just plain nuts."
'How to Disagree'http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
On Is Ours a Society That Accepts Torture?
Posted on December 19 at 8:06 p.m.
For anyone interested in a more accurate view, from independent media, of the recent Cuban development than the naive blue gang [D] is good / red gang [R] is bad that Barney provides here, below find two of several dozen posts regarding Cuba that have come through my RSS feed in the past few days:
Obama’s Trojan Horse: US Recognition of Cuba after 54 Years of Hostility and War Does't Mean an End to US SubversionWarIsACrime.orghttp://warisacrime.org/content/obama’...
USAID EXPOSED IN CUBA – WHAT IT TELLS US ABOUT US SUBVERSION WORLDWIDE The Oceania Sakerhttp://www.vineyardsaker.co.nz/2014/1...
U.S. Government Caught Using Humanitarian HIV Program As Front To Foster Cuban DissentZeroHedgehttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08...
On Cuba Libre?
Posted on December 19 at 4:34 p.m.
loonpt wrote:"The dominoes begin to fall pretty quickly."
Most especially, with 9/11.
Think about it.
Once that one goes, it all goes down very quickly — the entire stinking mess of atrocities and crimes against humanity: the endless wars against the "suspected terrorists" that the US deliberately creates in order to justify those wars, the thousands of murders and terrorizing of entire communities by flying killer robots, as well as —and particularly for those who care nothing about what happens 7000 miles away because they're incapable of believing their "lying eyes" that it's already beginning here — militarized police, destruction of the Bill of Rights, and the massive domestic spying apparatus *created for no other reason* than to "prepare the battlefield" for what they intend here in their so-called "Homeland."
Posted on December 19 at 1:32 p.m.
at December 19, 2014 at 1:16 p.m. :"Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't get UBL through actionable intel?"
There's a reasonable amount evidence that UBL died years before the event you reference above; I don't believe there's any real evidence that event actually occurred.
But no need for another ad hominem addressed to "you guys", as above is only *incidental to my main point*, which answers the question you pose:
I doubt anyone who believes the event occurred would dispute that it resulted from actionable intel.
Whether wittingly or not, you're confusing the point: my objection was to your repeatedly debunked claim that torture produces actionable intel.
I neither wrote, nor implied, that actionable intel does not often lead to successful (however that's defined) actions.
Posted on December 19 at 1:14 p.m.
Intelligence agencies of several US allies mocked the official US explanation of this event almost immediately.
As early as 2003, polls indicated that 75% or more of New York City residents rejected the US government cockamamie fairy tale regarding this event.
Recent polls are showing that a *diminishing minority* of the US population as a whole believes the official US government story.
When I encounter anyone of that diminishing minority, I sometimes suggest, in 3 steps in order beginning with *minimal time commitment*:
(1) a 16-second investment here:
[VIDEO - 00:16] 'ReThink911 Toronto Subway Ad'http://rethink911.org/news/toronto-ad...
(2) 5.5 minutes at the *witty, fast-paced,* and information-packed video here...
[06:00] '911 Truth ~ 9/11 In a Nutshell'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQdy...
…that includes 33 seconds beginning at 05:00 of outtakes featuring NYPD & FDNY *professionals*, and others who escaped from the Twin Towers.
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truthhttp://www.ae911truth.org/
Posted on December 19 at 11:40 a.m.
at December 19, 2014 at 11:04 a.m. :
"...if we can get actionable intel..."
Yes, well, setting aside loonpt's excellent point directly above that suggests that the actionable intel we need is not within the heads of taxi drivers and shepherds who live on the other side of the planet, but rather, within the heads of our highly-paid criminals and psychopaths in D.C. who *order and condone the torture* — it's been shown over and over and over again that we CANNOT get actionable intel by this immoral method that violates international law as well as all norms of civilized behavior — which is the reason for my — and other's — assertions (see the first comment of this discussion) that the sole purpose of US torture — other than entertaining the psychopathic criminals who engage in it — is simply to create terrorists.
Posted on December 19 at 10:19 a.m.
nomoresanity wrote:"I will opt for waterboarding over reading all of JT's rambling references..."
Thanks, I enjoyed that, especially in conjunction with the sentence that followed. ;-)
*Incidentally*, most often I break those up — at least to some extent — in more formal writing; for example (and not unrelated to this discussion — note the fourth paragraph after the opening quote, and especially note *the 3-minute video created in San Luis Obispo linked in the final paragraph*):
'Lois Capps — Empowering War and Domestic Tyranny Since 1998'http://www.noozhawk.com/article/john_...
But occasionally, in less formal comments, just for the heck of it I leave them as the original thoughts.
Posted on December 19 at 8:27 a.m.
nativeson wrote:"The main reason for the release of those documents was to continue to slander Bush and Cheney…"
This is correct.
Dianne Feinstein is a snake; she cares nothing about the torture of foreigners by the US. Rather, her purpose is not just to promote NSA power at the expense of CIA power, as I noted in my previous comment, but to detract attention from *current domestic* crimes of the NSA (the blue gang's favorite criminal agency) by shining a spotlight on *past overseas* crimes of the CIA (the red gang's favorite criminal agency).
So while Feinstein pretends to be against torture of foreign taxi drivers and shepherds (i.e. "*suspected* terrorists" — the same designation, incidentally, that the appropriately Nazi-like named "Department of Homeland Security" applies to an increasing proportion of US citizens residing within the US), that had been delivered to — and continue to be delivered to — psychopathic CIA torturers as a result of bounties that amount to more money than most people who receive them have ever seen, she promotes the empowering of the federal government, via the NDAA, to secretly imprison, detain indefinitely, torture, and even execute US citizens on US soil that her favorite agency, the NSA, determines to be "a threat."
Posted on December 18 at 10:03 p.m.
Cubans would be fools to trust the US, and should be very careful about opening the country. It is not only the USAID meddling or the Cuban missile crisis (which eliminated US nuclear weapons in Turkey threatening Moscow), that give reason for caution, but also the various other attack plans and assassination attempts against Cuban leaders.
Regardless of its public statements directed at the willfully uninformed among its own citizens, the US, having overthrown or attempted to overthrow 80 governments since 1953...
'America's Coup Machine: Destroying Democracy Since 1953'http://www.alternet.org/world/america...
…will certainly continue to undermine Cuba.
Posted on December 18 at 8:51 p.m.
"I appeal to your [CIA director's] better nature not to accept torture as legitimate practice."
It's nice to see a post opposing torture [incidentally: the author of this post is not indicated at the time of this writing], but seriously — do you really think a CIA director possesses some better nature to appeal to?
The USA, since World War II, in order to force much of the world, at gunpoint, to accept an intrinsically worthless reserve currency and its derivatives, has had little to offer to the world other than arrogance, followed by threats, followed by chaos, destruction, and death.
The purpose of the CIA, the creator of both Al Qaeda and ISIS, is to provide the chaos and the lower level destruction and death, often "preparing the battlefield" for the arrival of the aircraft carriers, when the horrors really get going.
The current administration has used flying killer robots to terrorize entire communities 24 hours per day, while murdering more than 2400 innocent people in seven countries — each murder a war crime, as not one of those countries attacked the USA or was a threat to it.
The CIA uses torture for the exact same reason:
Because torture creates the terrorists to do the CIA's "wet work" on behalf of the USA empire.
'How U.S. Torture Led to the Rise of ISIS'17 December 2014http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/1...
"• A former FBI interrogator — who interrogated Al Qaeda suspects — says categorically that torture turns people into terrorists
"• A 30-year veteran of CIA’s operations directorate who rose to the most senior managerial ranks, says: Torture creates more terrorists and fosters more acts of terror than it could possibly neutralize.
"• A former US Air Force interrogator said that torture just creates more terrorists
"• Two professors of political science have demonstrated that torture increases, rather than decreases, terrorism
"• Former counter-terrorism czar Richard A. Clarke says that America’s indefinite detention without trial and abuse of prisoners is a leading Al Qaeda [a CIA creation] recruiting tool"
The imploding USA empire NEEDS terrorists, now more than ever.
So the CIA is not going to cease torturing due to political theater by one of the most corrupt members of the US Congress, Dianne Feinstein, orchestrating a turf war between the elephant gang's favorite rogue agency, the CIA, and the jackass gang's favorite rogue agency, the NSA.
And it's certainly not going to cease torturing due to a letter to the CIA director.