Charges Filed in July 4th Stabbings

Ship them out of Santa barbara

What a telling remark.
Sanchez said the city “is and remains one of the safest cities in the state.” as if a teen death means nothing, and this is "OK" because after all, it's only ONE teen death. As if it is just a matter of statistics. Mayor Blum says it is "not OK" to kill people and "stop it", Oooo tough talk, while the hard core gangsters laugh.

This self-satisfaction and denial by City Officials - the constant patting each other on the back, along with the "we have done all we can do the rest is up to you" attitude is half the problem with our fearful leaders. Then they turn back to there GREEN agendas, and the Mayor runs off to be admired and praised as one of the GREEN team at the Mayors conventions.

Oh ok well let's just continue along the path to doing nothing but entertaining the "at-risk youth" then and "keeping them busy", while the real troublemakers (the police seem to know exactly who they are and where they hang out) continue to roam the streets. The problem is that the real gang members do not take advantage of all the taxpayer and community paid youth programs that seem to be the only single minded solution they can come up with. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

We are so relatively safe compared to other Cities - what an excuse... this should never be allowed to become like other cities. It never has been until the reign of this liberal touchy feely administration. We ask the youth what we can do, we blame ourselves for not doing enough for them - "what can we do to help" what bribe can we offer you as if the gangsters hold the City hostage - instead of telling them what to do and what not to do and enforcing it.

How safe are we compared to when these do-nothing-but-cry bozos (Mayor, City Council, Police Chief) first took office? Get tough or get out! We still won't take advantage of basic tools like gang injunctions and monitoring parolees. Maybe we need to profile (gasp) to save lives. Maybe we need to untie the hands of law enforcement and stop worrying about offending people. I have three words ... election election election ... do NOT allow Helene Schneider or Iya Falcone and definitely not Das Williams or Grant House to become Mayor or this will continue until guns and AK-47s appear on the scene and gangsters will be running this town, much like Mexico as of late is run by gangs and drug cartels with intimidated and corrupt police. How many more teens have to die before the electorate gets wise?

Short version?
The City is perhaps "one of the safest Cities in the state" but look at the trend. We have gone from no gang murders in what...10 years, twenty years?... to three in less than two years. At that exponential rate of acceleration, along with the climbing number of gang members and parolees roaming the streets, and the number of Hispanic teen pregnancies, how long before we are one of the most dangerous cities in the state? That safety that you are trying to take credit for, Chief, you inherited. Under your command it is growing at an amazing and unprecedented pace. Nice try though. Get back to finding jobs for non gang members. Then do us all a favor and look for a new one yourself.

I'd say that RForsyth's comments are proof of the old adage that "A fool can ask more questons then a wise man can answer". I don't disagree that we have a serious problem and it is getting worse. I agree that our current leaders don't have the answer, however, RForsyth doesn't offer any solutions and I suspect he or she doesn't have any. Many folks say we should "get tough with gangs" whatever that means. I suppose they would like to see a police state. I think it might be helpful if some clever readers offered some serious detailed advice or suggestions and lay off the endless criticisms and cheap shots against our elected officials.

Read it again Noletaman and stop being an apologist - your attitude of satisfaction with City leadership is exactly the problem. I mentioned gang injunctions, monitor the parolees who are influencing the teens (if you have followed the incidents you will notice that it is very common for a parolee to be caught with several minors after an incident) or stop letting them out of jail in the first place. Untie the hands of the police so they can profile, allow them to put the troublemakers away since the police know who they are and where they hang out, let me add cooperating with ICE by implementing a 287(g) agreement which has been suggested numerous times by numerous individuals to the "leaders" and has been ignored. If you remember, shortly after the first victim was murdered there was a collection to "send his body back to Mexico". What does that tell you about where the culture comes from and why the disorderly influx of illegal immigrants needs to be stopped? A generalization perhaps but prove me wrong.The City has a responsibility to assist- for it's own safety. How many more solutions would you like? And what is it that makes you love the elected officials so much - they are elected to provide first and foremost PUBLIC SAFETY and have failed miserably. THAT IS THEIR JOB AND RESPONSIBILITY ARE WE NOT TO CRITICIZE WHEN THEY FAIL TO DO THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB THEY WERE ELECTED TO DO? Without public safety everything degrades, including the economy, the tourism, the property values. Are they being effective in your blind eyes? I see three gang murders in the past two years without precedence and numerous stabbings and graffiti incidents at an accelerated, unprecedented pace. What do you see? Do you see any change of course by the officials as this problem accelerates?
All I see is self satisfaction and more of the same. I predict three more murders this year and at least one using a handgun, if things don't change. Mark my words. What is your solution? I have offered mine and it begins with a new Mayor, City Council and Police Chief with some political cajones.

A police state? I suppose you prefer anarchy? Is it considered a police state when laws are enforced? omg we are in deeper trouble than I thought.

Now that I think about it Noletaman you're right - the problem isn't the elected officials at all, it is people with your mentality that elect them that is the problem. Nothing personal of course.

Here is a different twist on this issue. Here is a quote from Senator Barbara Boxer's autobiography "Strangers in The Senate."

On page 179, Boxer writes "Senator John Chafee of Rhode Island has introduced a bill to prohibit the manufacture, importation, exportation, sale, purchase, transfer, receipt, possession, or transportation of handguns or handgun ammunition; the only exception would be for law enforcement, military guards, or antique collectors and regulated handgun clubs. Senator Chafee calls his bill the 'Public Health and Safety Act,' and that's an appropriate name." For the next four pages she quotes Chafee after which Boxer writes "Waiting periods may well help and I support them, but I do believe that Senator Chafee's approach will lead to a better America." (funny how she doesn't mention this on her website)

OK, she wants to gut the 2nd amendment while stabbings are rampant. Here is proof that the problem isn't just with city leadership.

By the way, has Barbara Boxer, or for that matter, President Bush, or any former president in recent history, or Lois Capps, or (the list goes on) addressed the the fact that our open border is only adding to the already overcrowded conditions that is a big catalyst for this gang problem?

too bad this could be an interesting exchange of comments but instead will be one of those when one commenter chooses to dominate. oh well. maybe a future article will allow for a more robust discussion. RFORSYTH: keep it brief, please.

Well, I'm glad that we got an update about what happened.

"It is alleged in filed court papers that the four suspects were looking for Eastside gang members, suggesting they were Westside gang members thus lending further credence to unconfirmed talk circulating that the victim, who lived on the Westside, was stabbed by one of his own."

What do you think about the Westside kid perhaps being stabbed by one of his own??? WOW! Think it will make them think twice before the next incident? Hmm, I hope so but considering the lack of thought these kids have already shown we can't count on that!

It is so great to hear that Juarez is still going to be tried as an adult. I hope that it is SOON, they have waited too long to do his trial. It would be a good thing if all of these trials proceed quickly, it is so important to have that example to the others out there who are doing the same things. They need to all know that it is not going to be tolerated and that the consequences are severe!

I'd like to make a comment to any of our youth reading this article and blog. Please don't fight against yourselves. Fight against the 'man,' the system. It's not about you being Mexican or Latino. It's about class and inequality. Some people have money, thus education and opportunities. If you were born into poverty, you can get out of it. Do take advantage of the city-sponsored programs. As boring as school is, you have to play the game and graduate. When you get to SBCC, you can take classes that are fun and interesting. Multi-media, art, computers, graphic design.

Why do Latino boys fight each other? These are not your enemies. Your enemy is racism and classism. Your enemy is people who don't want you to have political power; people who don't care about your future or earning potential.

Don't fight each other. Fight for your place in this world.

I'm genuinely curious why Chief Sanchez and the Mayor still think it is not time yet for a gang injunction. What on EARTH are they waiting for???

BRAVO BongHIt!!! That is the best advice that has been posted yet and right on. There are so many opportunities available and theirs for the taking.

What a great exchange of thoughts! The gang problem has been in existance in Santa Barbara since before I can remember. It has only surfaced as a major "problem" recently because of the brazeness of these recent incidence. It used to be an after school fight, a back alley after midnight attack, or other covert gang action. Now it seems that you get extra gang member points for doing a daylight, middle of an event, or otherwise crowded gang deed.

Let's be real folks. The gang problems and crime in general will not be solved with one solution alone. We need to embrace ALL of these ideas and put them to work. We need to stand firm on enforcement. Give our Law Enforcement the power and the directive to go out and seek gang members and trouble makers wherever they are and SHAKE THEM DOWN. Give them jay walking tickets, cerfew violations, speeding tickets, get the zoning departments and housing authorities to come down on their places of residence with whatever violations they can find. Basically, make life so uncomfortable for them, they don't want to stay. But, we also need to identifiy those "victims of circumstance" who's family members are gangsters and who's parents are absent, and give them the education and alternatives to stay out of the lifestyle. And for those already in the lifestyle, who show some glimmer of hope of getting out, give them the opportunity to rehabilitate (those are few and far between, by the way).

As for city hall...don't get me started. I see more worries from the mayor about letting Santa Barbara get labbeled as having a gang problem, then I do about fixing the problem. Blum needs to do a ride along with the police departments gang unit on a Friday night, and get a grip of what's happening in her city's underworld.

Ta for now!

Great post VoiceofSB, I think that most of us would agree with you.

Thank you, BongHit. Excellent advice - hope the kids take it before getting hooked up with the older guys. Notable to me, at least, is how these aren't all young people but older teens.

Punishment for the perpetrators and deterrence for all, including those who participated is what's very important. Interesting how it was city-wide, with incidents on the lower east side as well. Indeed, it felt that way here on the lower east side, so after starting out around 8:30, sensing the tension, I had no interest in going out for the city celebration but stayed safely at home. Bummer to have to do that in our city on the 4th of July.

I don't think the issues are racism but if they are, it's also anglos like me intimidated - at times - in a Latino neighborhood where neighbors, hispanic as well as anglo, and I don't dare walk some streets at night. Sucks!!!!

What senseless acts of violence!
I bet if you speak with Hospital Emergency Room teams, Police and Fire Departments, they will tell you that ALOT of crimes and violence in Santa Barbara goes unreported on a daily basis. That's Santa Barbara for you; cannot affect tourism can they?

Yes BongHit great advice, but the Mayor and the entire community have already offered that advice and for some reason a small minority are rejecting the advice. The solution obviously is not to provide the missing common sense. Being of a different race I personally resent your implication that racism is keeping these bangers down. It is their own poor choices that are keeping them down. Stop giving them excuses and perpetuating the myth that the "man" is keeping them down. Over the past year and a half they have been offered more opportunities than I have ever imagined possible. The problem is they are not taking advantage of them. Has anyone considered they just don't want to and never will? There are people of every race who simply don't have the fortitude to help themselves. I assure you that if these punks started acting like gentlemen and made some attempt to take advantage of all that is offered them, they would have no problem getting ahead. There are countless people of the race in question who have done just that. Many of them ARE in political power, so how do you explain that? This has nothing to do with racism. Let's call it criminalism if we must assign an "ism". And you're right, why would we want criminals to have political power? You are not helping the issue or these kids by perpetuating the idea that these kids have no hope because of the "system".

Oh and those people who have money? They didn't get it by roaming the streets stabbing people. They or their ancestors earned it by studying hard and working hard. It wasn't just given to them (unless they happen to be Paris Hilton). Regardless, they weren't out blaming the "man" for their status in life and choosing a life of crime instead of trying to get ahead. There is no excuse especially at such a young age, to not take advantage of opportunity. That is the beauty of America, anyone can do it, regardless of race or class. It has been proven time and time again. The first step is to try. What country are you living in?

Two things: One, the comment regarding our Mayor's fear of this city's reputation is true, and the residents of SB would be dumb struck if they knew how many incidents are covered up by our law enforcement and the local media because of this. I worked in real estate here a number of years ago, and learned more than I cared to about how this city is managed in order to maintain our image and appeal as a tourist destination. It all starts at the top of course, and there is a cooperative understanding and effort between the media/police that if something can be kept under the radar, it should. Example: on Father's day a couple of weeks ago, I watched in horror and sadness as the body of a young man was discovered in Honda Valley (near the Mesa) in the middle of the day. We saw everything, including the gun that was used to cause this man's death. At one stage, I contacted KEYT to see if they were covering it. They said a camera man was on his way. I watched as the camera man set up his gear near the police tape. An officer then apparently asked him to leave, so he packed up and left. Eventually they bagged the body and evidence, and took down the tape. End of story - not a single news report could be found ANYWHERE regarding a gunshot victim practically in my back yard, 2 minutes from downtown. Hmmmm. I was told by some of the veteran realtors back when I worked at Prudential that there are many incidents, especially gang related, that go unreported so as not to spook residents or tourists - especially tourists. I guess they base their decision to inform us on how many witnesses there are. Digest that for a minute.
And my second point is: my son attended all local schools and graduated last year. The pressure for him to join a gang was unbelievable at the Jr. High level. Many of these kids feel the same pressure and are bullied into these gangs so as not to appear weak or "uncool", and in some cases, are threatened if they don't cooperate. And talk about profiling, if you even look slightly Hispanic, you're a target for recruitment (as a young Italian friend of my son's was). The vast majority of the kids in Jr. High and High School in SB are legal citizens, even if their parents or grandparents are not. So "shipping them out" is not, and shouldn't be, an option. I think more needs to be done at school, starting in 5th grade, to education these kids and empower them to stay clear of gang affiliation. Educating them early and grounding it into their psyche that gang affiliation is stupid, uncool, and a thing of the past, I think, would be a proactive approach. It's not the complete answer of course, but it's one area that could use more emphasis.

BongHit is right on.

And no, we don't need a police crack down on supposed gang members or profiling, we need them to enforce the laws and maintain a presence.

Wearing certain types of clothes or looking a certain way is not a crime, no matter how much you want it to be.

Also, if drugs were legal they may as well be selling strawberries on the corner... very low profitability.. this would take away their desire to gain wealth and respect through the crimes and the black market. Extremely logical. Unfortunately that is not SB's decision, but it is is something we should be pushing for at a Federal level.

I don't know why people in SB feel so entitled to a 'gang free' community. Then they call the kids in IV spoiled brats?? Check yourself. I'd sure like to have a gang free community, but I am looking at the symptoms rather than taking on the impossible task of arresting every gang member, or worse, "shipping the Mexicans out of SB". Almost every community in the country has gangs. The Mayor and the leaders of our community have nothing to do with the rise in gangs and gang violence. It has to do with NAFTA, the US stripping Mexico of their former constitution, the drug war, the Federal Reserve and Corporate Welfare. Fix these problems first. Police are only necessary in societies where there is artificially created classism. A truly free market, following the constitution and protecting property rights (including protection from pollution) would ultimately rid us of classism.

Shocking Crissy - thanks for getting the truth out. You're right we only hear about things that can't be covered up - public events broad daylight on State Street or Milpas etc. We also hear no follow ups.Thank you thank you thank you. It's worse than I thought. Get these cronies out of office!

The US stripped Mexico of its constitution? Thats a new one. Please provide your sources I'd like to hear about that one. And last I checked NAFTA provided more benefit to Mexico than to the US. They get to sell their contaminated fruit to us and we get to die of salmonella. What does that have to do with gang violence? Cite your sources and prove that you're not just a loon.

We all know how lobbyists work in Washington... well, same goes for local politics if you think about it. There are those who benefit directly from the cover ups in our city: Real Estate companies, mortgage companies, hotels... Look at the biggest players (such as Prudential and Remax, the Biltmore, etc.). I can't say these particular companies are involved, but it would be interesting to know the influence some of the large companies have on a local level, and to find out who's been funding who's campaigns when election time rolls around. I was informed that this is just "how it works," and it doesn't matter if I'm unhappy about it, there's nothing I could do. There's too much money at stake. That was one of the reasons I got out of real estate. Makes you sick, doesn't it?

This article has some inflamitory statements and could have used some proofing. It is Ladera Street and is a neighborhood of collage students, condominiums, older homes and low income housing. It is not one of the poorest parts of town and does not have more problems than any other that is a neighborhood that is crowded. My question everytime is, what is going on with the parents of these young children and why aren't they being held accountable for their childen?
There is no one "patch" for this problem, but many are needed. We need to address the families, substance abuse and emotional problems for these children.
As well, if the media,writer of this article,could give clearer facts, less "fluff" that only makes people more agitated, maybe solutions would be clearer for readers.
Gang problems with children this young is, A FAMILY PROBLEM!

This is such an interesting exchange and obviously a touchy subject. I agree with much of RForsyth's arguments. The administration in SB is too soft, too fluffy, too distracted by what they should appear to be doing, rather than what needs to be done. A few things that we need to ponder. We've been conditioned to believe that poverty causes crime, and poverty is to blame for poor education. But, I think it's quite the opposite. Crime causes poverty, and poor education causes poverty. That is what we need our children to believe as well. That they aren't born into these situations...they are born into the same world/nation that we all are. And the choice is to stay where you are, continue the cycle, or to get out and do something with your life so that you can come back and make a difference. Perhaps change the landscape of your hometown and/or community. Aiming anger at the "system" at the "man" and at racial biases only fuels speculation that certain people are born into disadvantage. Sure...that's true of any race though. You could be ugly...that's a disadvantage. Your mom could be a bulemic coke head...another disadvantage. Point being, we can't give an entire people/race etc. the excuse that they are at a disadvantage because it makes accomplishing even little things and extraordinary event. And really, with all of the resources in our community and within the school systems...the choices are clear. The "ghettos" of Santa Barbara are not even comparable to those of other city's yet we treat it like a third world country. So sensitive to the "poor areas." Shoot...I'd take one of the nice craftsman style homes in those areas!
I don't understand how the gang injunction could be harmful to the community. I still need to hear a stronger argument against it. What does Blum mean when she indicates that she hopes that it won't come to that? How many children need to be killed? I just don't see the logic in her statements.
Can we also address that these senseless crimes happened during a time when we are at war and men and women are DYING for our country and our freedom? Sad that it has never crossed the minds of any of those involved that July 4th is a day to celebrate our liberties and honor those who have lost their lives for a cause BIGGER than who gets the dolphin fountain...east or west. I don't mean to minimize the tragedy, but if you want to truly understand the meaning of senseless..you have to strip the sense right out, throw up your hands and face the horror of the problem we face in this community. Enough is enough. Give the cops whatever authority they need to crack down on gangs. No more peace treaties in the park. No more gangs...period.

To loonpt:

Almost every community in the country has gangs. The Mayor and the leaders of our community have nothing to do with the rise in gangs and gang violence. It has to do with NAFTA, the US stripping Mexico of their former constitution, the drug war, the Federal Reserve and Corporate Welfare.

Please give me a break. Our community has plenty do with the rise in gangs. How about taking responsibility on a local level and not always blame everyone and everything else. Let's begin with the parents and take it up from there.

Santabarbasand guy must be high. 'Nothing to do with being Latin American'..i mean, please. This is all due to Latin mochizmo.
i can tell you that many of us are loosing patience with female mayors and criminal-coddeling Latin Americano police chiefs under 6 ft tall. Cheesy rider police chief aint workin out.
He cant make a mere statement about crime without some coddeling statment about personal recovery from criminal gangs that some of these people DO make. But all in all, lets face it...i dont care if these pukes are up at Wasco state prison with high heels on, dead, or doing youth crap having turned theire life around. I want the problem solved.

Beautifully said LilmamaT, CommonSense, genamethuen. There is hope. I was starting to think I was a lone wolf. Please no more apologists for the City "leaders". It seems perfectly acceptable to blame Bush for everything but never do we dare speak against Marty Blum the liberal heroine. Their youth coddling philosophies have had a year and a half to prove themselves - I am not against giving at-risk youth opportunity, but it does no good for those who refuse to take advantage of opportunity and are beyond help for whatever reason. Just like terrorists, the only thing they will respond to is force and tough love. One more teen death is one more too many. Lets elect people with some new approaches - preventative and pro active, instead of reactive and weak, before it is too late for the next victim.

the problem starts at home, no one can argue that, it starts with bad parenting, lack of parenting, or the parents themselves being children. i find it funny that in order to drive a car you need a driver's license but anyone can be a parent. how bout we require a license to reproduce, its outrageous but its it will keep kids from having kids and it will keep criminals from having kids and it will keep idiots from having kids. basically it will only allow people who are responsible enough to be parents and people who actually take the time out of their lives to raise their children right will be allowed to have kids and all the rest of the people who only know how to screw up their own lives will not be allowed to also screw up some kids life.

also not only should these kids be help responsible for the murders and attacks but the parents should also be held responsible for raising their kids to become criminals.

As one of the bloggers said the problem is multifold.

As for racism let's not forget that when slavery was in practice it was illegal to teach a Black person to read and write. Slaveowners knew that education was a threat to their stranglehold over Blacks. Curiously, so-called liberals and "progressives" continue to support "bilingual" programs for Mexican immigrants knowing perfectly well (or am I giving them too much credit?) that this ensures that the most powerful weapon these immigrants could have against racism and exploitation--which is literacy in the language of business and commerce--will be denied them. When their American-raised kids see this they naturally feel alienated because they are neither Mexican nor American--at least in a sense of cultural belonging.

It has been my observation that American has burned into its collective mind the idea that Mexicans are simple-minded people who are doomed to academic mediocrity. I remember at a school board meeting back in the 90's where the topic was bilingual education a woman got up and commented that it seemed to her that the message being sent by those who supported bilingual ed was that they felt that while immigrants from all other parts of the world could learn English, they didn't feel that Mexican immigrants could. I remember how everyone in the room got REAL quiet. This is one example of the sort of negative reenforcement Mexican kids get. Is it any wonder that "self-esteem" is such an issue?

Racism will always be here, but as the history of Asians and Jews in America has proven, education is the weapon that puts disenfranchised people on a level playing field. As bonghit points out, one must take advantage of educational opportunities. That having been said, there IS a strong tendency among Mexican-American youth--at least I saw it when I was in high school--to not take advantage of this because it either isn't considered cool, or because they believe the myth that they can't do it.

As for loonpt's comments: A friend told me that NAFTA did away of the program in Mexico called the Elido program where the Mexican government would give land in indigent people. I have no way of verifying this so this is just hearsay. I'm not even sure if he said "elido" or "elito" but anyway I thought I'd share that and hopefully one of you knows more than I about this and can verify or refute this.

MedicJ, I believe Hitler tried something like that, and took it a step further by "eliminating" those he didn't see fit to remain in the gene pool. Careful people, we are a free country and the vast majority of these CHILDREN are our citizens. The old adage, "It takes a village..." is very applicable here. Education and empowerment are where the solutions lie for the children, accountability and STRICT enforcement for the adults is where the solution lies for them. I have to agree that law enforcement needs to be more proactive in our community for sure. Holding parents accountable is understandable and appropriate, but our schools are also, in part, responsible. We as citizens are ALSO responsible! If you see something brewing, or see a group in gang attire out in public and showing a negative or hostile demeanor, it is OUR job as citizens to contact police so that they can get a handle on things BEFORE they get out of control. Had the people at the Harbor been more proactive and inclined to get involved and tip off the police when these groups started to form, would this child still be alive? It's possible. The police cannot be EVERYWHERE at once, even with stricter enforcement. We can help them by being observant and diligent as to what's going on around us, and doing the right thing when we see something that raises our hackles and make that call, even if we're not sure. The police know how to do their job, so it's incredibly helpful if we're willing to take that chance and alert them of suspicious behavior. The answer is NOT "eliminating" a race of people from our city/county/country. To lump every person of Hispanic origin into a generic category of criminality is racism to the nth degree. Be cautious of what you wish for. Most of us are not indigenous people of this beautiful city and land we call home. But we ARE law abiding citizens, and that includes EVERY race and color in this city, including many Hispanic families that have been here for many generations and have been a great asset to this city.

Peace

My wife and I reside in Goleta, and we decided well she mandated that we get away for the fourth. We took a trip down south to visit her brother who lives in Anaheim. The only way to keep up with the GAP fire was to log onto KSBY.com, becasue our local station just has not done it for me. I was destroyed and redfaced to read that there had been another local stabbing. As a local educator I work very close with these young men and women who attach themselves to these bandillas (gangs). As I read the text I was so embarrassed for myself and the community. I was also stupefied by our local leaders comments about the event. Our minors today are so oppressed and are living theire lives in a necrophilic state: destuctive lifestyle. We can't turn our back on hope it is an ontolological need. My hope is enough! No my hope is necessary, but is not enough. We need a critical hope the way a fish needs unpollutted water.

Bong hiit was honest and to the point. So are most of these comments.

Here are my thoughts, from the lower West Side.

Ever see "West Side Story"? The turf war among the young men has been going on forever. In fact, why did Cain kill Abel? That's biblical.

Being high is okay with me. I lived on Ladera St before I moved a block away to my present address. I feel like I must be high in order to live down here. It's the same street where the naked guy breaks into my old address and holds a woman against her will. That was too scary.

Or a year ago when the machete/beating gang incident took place. And that tragic story of the alleged drumk girl that was hit by an alleged drunk driver in October. (two blocks away) We also had a non-gang stabbing take place across the street. Not to mention the 11 unsolved arson fires along the train tracks last October, or the 23 arson fires from 3 years ago. . .

And all the while we will be under 21 feet of water if the Blue Line actually takes place.

So what does it matter to me?

It doesn't matter. 99.99% of the time I never even see these things even though they are happening "right across the street". I onlly read about them here. . .

Let's be careful Crissy I don't see that anyone has advocated eliminating a race of people or lumped "every person of Hispanic origin into a generic category of criminality". We have been talking about criminals, not a race of people. The fact that most of them seen to be Hispanic does not mean anyone is implying that all or even most Hispanics are criminals. That is most certainly not the case. And what the heck is "Godwin's law" web admin?

It is a very small number that are criminals - perhaps 100, but that 100 can cause an awfully lot of trouble, especially if unchecked. If the cops can't handle it, it is time for citizens to arm themselves.

MedicJ said that idiots should not have kids. He did not say that Hispanics should not have kids. Idiots come in all colors. Let's not keep turning this into a race issue. I have already been falsely accused of being a racist simply because I do not feel that illegal immigration should be tolerated. If I were truly a racist I would want ALL Hispanics to be deported. I most certainly do not, only those who come illegally and cut in front of those who try to do what is right and lawful. I don't know why people make assumptions and cannot differentiate between legal Hispanic citizens and illegal ones. I know the difference. It is not a race issue, it is a national sovereignty and security issue. Hispanic Americans are always welcome. A Mexican citizen that sneaks across the border is not a Hispanic American.

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2][3]

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

Great discussion! I absolutely agree with previous comments about the Mayor, et al. She seems like a nice person, but how did she get to be Mayor??

From what I hear, crissyslucky7 is exactly right as to the pressures on Jr highschoolers to "claim" gang affiliation.(Not just boys, either). I don't know about you, but in 5th-8th grades I don't think I had the intestinal fortitude to stand up to a bunch of kids I had to see, live around, walk to school with, etc. daily threatening me. Many kids are "gang affiliated" without being members, per se. When kids are walking around alone, they are often confronted by groups demanding to know "who do you claim?" To which there is no right answer. They get beat up either way, unless they affiliate with the predominant group in their neighborhood. This, I think, is where the parenting/extended family support system comes in (or should come in) to somehow counteract all that pressure & divert behavior into other outlets. Unfortunately, the gang thing is multigenerational & pressure is also put on these kids from relatives in prison. Gang members are the quintessential bullies and cowards, always seeking safety in their group. A kid alone is a target for someone putting in work for the gang, as are the rest of us in the form of random crimes.
Answers? I think the gang injunction is a good idea. Criminal street gangs are already illegal and there are tools for enforcement. It's not like inflicting a police state, it's enforcing current law. Enforced curfews would be good too. The Criminal Justice System is slow, often slower the more serious the crime and protracted with multiple defendants/multiple attorneys, each with a different agenda for their client. I'm not sure threat of incarceration is such a deterrent anyway. It gives kids more "street cred". We need to do something to protect the vulnerable kids as we would from any bullies. Continued dialog may generate more ideas as to how.

The idea of preventing idiots from having kids is a natural reaction resulting from the critical mass of frustration felt by people who have had politically correct ideas shoved down their throats for decades which clearly don't work. That having been said, I can sympathize with this frustration but I don't agree with it.

We have a lot of people behaving idiotically because our culture encourages it. When you look at what passes for entertainment whether it be what we see on T.V., or in the so-called "music" industry, and how our society embraces gansta rap culture as being mainstream, it's clear that the problem is not a eugenic one, but a societal one.

Another point: While the majority of gang bangers are of Mexican origin--due to the fact that the U.S. sees a huge migration of poor people who don't in many cases have good English skills--more and more White kids are emulating the gang lifestyle. In short, the idiotic behavior is not one that is particular to any given race, but rather an American cultural phenomenon.

What I see in these threads are people lashing out against Marty Blum, Cam Sanchez, and calling for "get tough" measures. While these criticisms may have validity--or not--the fact is the American electorate naively keeps electing to national office senators, congressional representatives, and presidents who ensure the status quo--in particular on immigration policy. We can blame Sanchez, Blum, Mexicans, White racism, and lack of after-school programs for the gang problem, and call upon drastic measures to deal with this cancer that is consuming our society, but as long as people gleefully run to the ballot box naively thinking Obama or Mccain will wave magic wand to solve the problem, then the problem will get worse. Can any of you tell me how either McCain or Obama are going to do anything differently?

We need to go back to what we were doing before gang violence became mainstream.

OK, I have to confess, having read Sanchez's comment about this being one of the "safest cities in the state", WHY did he say this? Is he grading murder on a curve?

And now the non-profits are going to stop the violence? That's like giving someone who is dying on pneumonia asprin. It will make the person feel better, but unless the get antibiotics, the pneumonia will kill them.

All the while these groups keep supporting the political status quo that clearly isn't standing up to the vested interests who want the border kept wide open so people can be exploited for cheap labor while their unattended kids join gangs and kill people.

crissy i didn't say anything about killing anyone but preventing unfit idiots from becoming parents period. as a paramedic i am glad that bystanders didn't step in to break it up or there would have been more people injured or killed and thats a fact. also you said people should call the cops as soon as they see gangster looking people or as you said ... "If you see something brewing, or see a group in gang attire out in public and showing a negative or hostile demeanor, it is OUR job as citizens to contact police so that they can get a handle on things BEFORE they get out of control." .... isn't that criminal stereotyping? you know the thing you are so against? come on get your views straight before you start telling others that theirs are wrong!

We can blame Bush, why can't we blame Blum?

The majority of gangbangers in Santa Barbara are of Hispanic origin, but that is not necessarily true in LA and other areas. Santa Barbara is just reflecting what's happening everywhere there are new, often illegal, residents flooding the systems. You know, the majority is now the minority thing. Combine that with so many "native" residents on their 2nd, 3rd or no marriages, with blended families, too many kids, with too little time devoted to them, all the stress that entails, a too high cost of living and people aspiring to the American Dream without the means or desire for the work it takes to achieve it and there will be trouble. Gangs are, we know, not a new thing. And remember that gangs are also devoted to other illegal activites, like drug dealing, not all of whose customers are gangbangers.
I think it's naive to harken back to the good old days when it was just "us", assimilated immigrants, here. It is equally foolish to just make it all OK to flood our culture with one that doesn't aspire to assimilate, but rather, would like the dominant culture to change to one in which they feel more comfortable. Over time there may be a synthesis of the two. I think it's important to have strong boundaries, both as a country and as citizens. Why is everone so afraid of offending someone by saying 'this far and no farther'? We don't have consensus rule requiring everyone to feel good about enforcing laws we already have. I think gang bangers need to be told, unequivocally, with every means available, that their behavior won't be tolerated here.

The gang problem in Santa Barbara is minor in comparison to many other cities. Neither the police nor the mayor are to blame for any difficulty in preventing those who are hellbent on being violent. As long as the gangbangers are killing each other, and no one else, eventually we'll be rid of them.

No buckwheat. It DOES effect us. It effects our children that go to public school with these KIDS. 15 year olds, 13 year olds getting arrested for the stabbing. That is a problem to the community. Not just a gang problem. They are killing each other, but children are dying. And they are children within our community. It does effect us. It is ignorant to turn a blind eye until "one of ours" is killed. The solution is not to disown the problem...it is to greet it head on and enforce a no tolerance policy.

Last time I saw actual data (within the past 6 months), the number of known gang members and affiliates as a percentage of total population was significantly higher in SB than in LA. This makes it a VERY BIG PROBLEM!

Even if it were true that our gang problem is minor compared to other cities that is no reason to tolerate ANY of it. It should have been nipped in the bud while it was still nippable. I think that was sometime during the reign of Queen Blum. Yes, she is a nice person, which is the worst qualification for Mayor during tough times. I guess we need a nice president too?

We all know that the gang problem is going to continue, and we all know that Mr. Sanchez and our mayor will be here for many years too,so I think we are just waisting our time talking about them and others. The question is what are we going to do about our community? I think the key is education, because when our kids imagine free and happy schools, it is because their real schools deny them freedom and happiness. I aslo believe we as educators have lost our patience with our students. As an educator I must live and work impatiently patiently, never surrendering entirely to either. We have given up on our kids because they are just a waste of time and they make the school and community look ugly. Who wants to work with kids who are disrespectful and come from the slums, there are some but not many. We need more tolerance because it is a virtue, tolerance teaches us to live with the different and dirty. It teaches us to learn from and respect the different.

Saying that S.B. has minor gang problem is exactly what will make it a major gang problem. What we see is a TREND, and trends will get worse.

As for immigrants not assimilating, bear in mind that as long as our government and society enable them with "se habla español", human nature will dicate they won't learn English for the same reason most native-born Americans don't speak another language--because they've never been exposed it.

More probation enforcement might help. More police presence might help. But California doesn't raise enough money in taxes to fully fund probation enforcement, nor to build enough jail cells for all the probation violators, nor to run the job skills programs that have reduced recidivism in other states, nor to properly perform any other public function.

You want enough probation officers and cops to do the job, you're going to need to reform prop 13, extend the sales tax to services, and restore Pete Wilson's income and vehicle tax rates. Bingo, done. Not rocket science.

But something tells me those crowing the loudest here about safety, would also be the first to whine like bratty 2 year olds when asked to pay for it.

I live in a gang-infested neighborhood and have been the victim of gang crime. I want the problem solved more than anyone. And the one thing that pisses me off even more than the gangbangers, are the voters who think we can get something for nothing.

Public safety costs money. Let's pay up or shut up.

Question: If California doesn't raise enough taxes to fund the programs needed to deal with gang violence, how did its budget get so far in debt?

I'm not arguing against funding the programs you suggest, but it seems to me that the problem is not that we aren't being taxed enough but rather how that money has been spent.

Exactly Bill -
How much money has gone to "greening" Santa Barbara, overpaid County and City employees and bureaucracies, Art Programs, Youth Programs that miss the target, wastd City time and resources on progressive political activism, not only local but national ... blue lines, Irag war resolutions - sending the Mayor here and there to be a national activist etc etc etc...the priority should always be public safety here at home

I totally agree with you with Bill Clausen. I grew up in Germany where children learn English in 4th grade (mandatory), and a second language later on, depending on their edicational path. Immersing children in a foreign language is one of the best things you can do to them, because learning a different language opens your horizon. It is especially important to learn the language of the country you live in. When I first came to the US, I was working with at Zona Seca for an afterschool project with "At Risk" 6th graders who were mostly Latinos, and they were illierate in both: English and Spanish - how sad and unfortunate.

As for jail. A 1/2 cent sales tax increase will be on the ballot sometime next year, and even though I hate to be taxed for everything because the California Government can not held a grip on their budget - this one I will gladly support.

Crime is crime. A criminal is a criminal, old or young, legal or illegal. Sorry about the bad childhood, but others have overcome it. Let's quit making excuses for the criminals and treat them as what they are - criminals. And if they are minors and their parents have looked the other way or claimed powerlessness, then perhaps the parents should be treated as criminals too. And if they happen to be illegal aliens (no, not the PC "undocumented immigrants" label), then what better reason to export them. And if the child is the criminal, then export the family...

I can see what's coming next RCMeltzer- so I will beat them to the gun. Someone will denigrate you for daring suggest illegal immigration has anything to do with this. I will remind people that the first thing we saw after the murder of Carachure was the neighbors collecting money to send the boy's body back to Mexico. As it turns out from:

http://www.independent.com/news/2007/jul...

"Carachure moved to Santa Barbara two years ago from Mexico, where his mother and father still live, according to Lupe. After the funeral Sunday, his body was flown by cargo plane to Mexico and was expected to arrive Monday night in the pueblo of Villa de Nicolás, in the state of Guerrero."

The Daily Sound had a different take - saying that the boys parents have a house in town:

http://www.thedailysound.com/2007/08/no-...

"The day after Carachure was murdered, hundreds of family and friends gathered outside his parents’ home just blocks from where the stabbing occurred to show their support.
Some were raising money to send the boy’s body back to Mexico to be buried, while others were praying near a makeshift altar decorated with candles and pictures of Carachure."

Was the Indy trying to cover up that the parents are illegals too? It leads the question , just how many bangers are illegals and why do we never hear about immigration status from the media? We all know why.

Yes this was the victim, but I imagine the tip of the iceberg. Of course there is never mention of immigration status by the media or law enforcement, when perpetrators are caught, of course there never will be for any of these incidents. That is how irrelevant the city leaders and media consider immigration status to be in regard to this festering problem, or how cowardly they are.
Please don't anyone label speaking the truth as "hate speech". It's getting old and tired and dangerous. That is the whole problem, the suppression of the truth by political correctness intimidation. If anyone really cares about this problem and the lives of teens- let's start by demanding a 287(g) agreement with ICE, a little proactive work from Sanchez, and welcoming the Minutemen to town. Santa Maria is ahead of us on that one, they have seen too much already. Look over the border if you want to see what Santa Barbara will look like in ten years. They are already losing their tourism and Police control. We also might demand a little truth in reporting and fewer cover-ups of incidents by the Police so we know exactly what the truth is.

There is something fundmentally wrong with the Hispanic community in SB in that they do not speak up against this sort of outrageous and animalistic behavior. Where is the outrage? Where is the leadership? Where is the self-responsibility? Where is any introspection? Lose the Latin machismo and acknowledge the fact that your community cannot control its young men. The Hispanic communmity fails to emphasize the value of education. They are self-destructively stubborn.

Also, because of the draconian P.C. laws present in the U.S. now our own media cannot report about the legal status of those involved.

I hear rumors they were illegals but why not report the facts? It is a salient aspect of the case. The P.C. police censor the facts from everyday citizens.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

Bill, you answered your own question. The state is in debt because it doesn't raise enough money to cover its expenses.

The culprit is not waste, fraud and abuse. Schwarzenegger went looking for it and turned up practically nothing.

The culprit is not state lawmakers spending money on frou-frou. Almost every penny of state spending is dictated by federal law and state voter initiatives; the amount of discretionary spending asymptotically approaches zero.

The culprit is not employees being paid too much, or government wouldn't keep losing its best employees to better paid jobs in the private sector.

The culprit is that in good times, politicians cut taxes. And in bad times, they don't restore them. And in all times, voters pass boneheaded tax and spending initiatives that cause more problems than they solve.

The bottom line is that we the voters want services, but don't want to pay for them.

So roadways are a crumbling mess on the state level -- but fine in this county, where we finally gave up and taxed ourselves with Measure D to maintain them. Conversely, jails are sufficient in counties where voters chose to pay up and build new ones -- but we lack jail space in this county, where we failed to do the same. Remind yourself of this next time you wonder why the police don't make more arrests.

There is no free lunch. If we want something (enough jail cells, enough probation officers, enough freeway lanes, enough firefighters, anything), we need to man up and pay for it. Previous generations of Californians understood this, which is why Ronald Reagan raised taxes as governor.

I for one am happy to chip in for more jail space - if I could be sure that is where the money would wind up - where can I make my Paypal contribution that bypasses the government bureaucracies?

In response to Kelp805: The media gives more attention to those non-White "leaders" who have an ax to grind than those who call for self improvement.

Everyone hears about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, but who knows about Larry Elder or Ken Hamblin? It's interesting how the Hollywood elite have remained silent as Bill Cosby--who put his career and life on the line back in the 60's by standing up to White racism--is now coming out against the hip-hop/Rap scene with all of its glorification of victimhood and violence.

In the Mexican/Hispanic/Latino/whatever term one wants to use demographic, there are not high-profile leaders such as you have among Blacks, but instead a number of organizations such as L.U.L.A.C. and M.E.C.h.A. that are active. Conformity stressed in Mexican-American culture and I say this because I saw it when I went to Santa Barbara High School. Any Mexican kid that didn't show blind obdiance to the La Raza concept was shunned and who knows what else they had to go through. The left-leaning White folks who ran the education system turned a blind eye on this (They woulnd't dare offend the La Raza contingent) so these kids were in a world of their own. This ties in with the greater picture: The media, whether out of left-wing leanings, or whether they are simply so consumed with fear of being called bad names by liberals or La Raza types, won't give Mexicans who buch the groupthink mentality a lot of press so in the end White folks think almost all Mexicans are La Raza or gang types. Add to this the fact that when Mexican kids see that they will get little support if they break free from la cadena perpetua (the endless cycle or literally "the perpetual chain") of gang violence, they get involved out of fear.

Speaking the truth hasn't been very popular the last few decades, but I can see by these threads more people are coming out of the closet and having a frank discussion on these matters which is the only way a solution can happen.

Agreed - respectfulness is more productive and more readable, even if opposed to other views. Vicious name calling and the like is not helpful. Also personal attacks on other commentors is not useful to the topic. Reword and give it another shot Kelp, we'd like to hear your viewpoint.

Wow. Freedom of speech anyone? Is this WWII Germany? Or is this modern-day China? Is this really the United States?

It appears Randy proved my point in regards to the P.C. police, the media being hijacked, and the inability to have a frank discussion about certain topics. Thanks, Randy.

My post that was removed had 100% accurate information in it. I did not call anyone names nor was I mean or insulting nor could it be accurately classified as a result of "rage."

Randy, please re-read my post and ask yourself if that really warranted to be censored and completely removed from an open discussion. I would have no problem saying what I said to anybody in person. Why should I be scared or hesitant to cite facts? Apparently, as I stated earlier, that are A LOT of people, including Randy, who are afraid to confront these difficult facts.

Do you realize you just erased a post that simply contained facts? My post did not contain any "vicious name calling" as RForsyth inaccurately said. RForsyth also proves the point than any critical naysayers instantly get labeled as vicious or racist even though they simply proffer facts.

Am I not allowed to say that the admitted goals of certain Latino organizations, namely MeCHA and other La Raza-types, is to re-claim Aztlan?

Given the behavior of the over-zealous monitor on this site, one would think I was spouting outrageous propaganda and that I was the radical.

I was curious so I googled "mecha aztlan". The first result even cited a text book from Santa Barbara School District! Check this out:

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

Please do not censor this, Randy! :)

-----------------------------

Randy here: thanks for expressing your opinion in a more acceptable fashion.

This thread has moved off the topic. The bottom line for me is. Gang activity is more present. The police ride in the sedans too much. I'd like to see see more foot patrolling, our businesses would certainly appreciate it. One gets the impression our finest may not be up for the idea.

You want to get some gang related facts, check out the stats from the SB schools and their gang related incidents. I am willing to wager those numbers are probably 20% or less of what really goes down, plus all the indirect incidents that occur like theft and tagging. So on a larger scale, the SB community is only seeing a small percentage of the actual crimes these wanna bes commit. How many of our businesses bathrooms in Goleta and SB (of course Montecito is probably less) have gang tagging? 95%? How many teenagers do you see wearing Pittsburgh Pirates hats? Guess what.. they probably aren't from Pittsburgh, the "P" stands for Goleta Projects. The police can identify a wanna be very easily, however, their hands are tied to do anything. The DAs office won't touch anything that isn't substantial, so all the petty stuff like vandalism or bullying, will not be addressed by law enforcement. The cops knows this and so they show up, cuff 'em for a few minutes and release them. It used to be if a cop drove you home it was a huge deal, now I bet the kids and parents would appreciate the ride home.

My apologies Kelp - I took Randy at his word that your post contained "argumentative and viciously critical and downright mean and insulting" verbage - that is why I suggested you repost so we could see just what you said that warranted censorship. If it did not contain what was described, I support you in full.
I too am annoyed by the low tolerance for righteous rage and anger in the media.

By the way, Kelp you are absolutely correct about the pro- Latino groups being out to reclaim America for themselves. They are the true racists - what do you think "La Raza" means anyway? The Race. Sounds a little brown supremicist does it not? But we are somehow cowed into believing these are just support groups for the poor oppressed minorities...

It's funny how if 10 skinheads were walking downtown there would be an onslaught of calls to Police Headquarters. Yet, we are conditioned to look at a group of Eastside or Westside gang members and just keep walking. So, we don't accept skinheads in the community, yet we accept these gangbangers as a part of our landscape. NO!!! No gangs! White, Black, Brown, Yellow...WHATEVER! Zero tolerance. If the gang injunction were put into place, members of the community would begin calling in and helping the police nab these criminals. If it saves ONE child's life isn't it "worth considering" Blum?

Hint: The Mayor has a call in talk show Saturday at noon on KTMS 990 AM. The phone number is 879-KTMS (879-5867). Make her feel the heat and do not accept when she has told the call screener that she won't take calls on the gang issue - that they have "moved on to other topics". With enough pressure she will be forced to answer these questions, and maybe actually direct her Police Chief to take some action.

LillMamaT, hits it on the head. What would the police do if those same skinheads tatted with swastikas, wearing white pride shirts, etc. ventured into and around in Montecito?

I'd bet the house, at the least, the police would intervene, as what should be done every time a wanna be is dressed in his/her colors.

So what's the difference?

Even our presidential candidates have to pander to these radical "La Raza" groups:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080714/pl_n...

It is no wonder that Mayor Blum is their puppet. Mayor Blum's problem, like that of most politicians, is that she is engaged in a never ending quest to be loved by all. That is why it was great to see Obama, no matter whether you support him or not, call out the Black community about taking responsibility for the outrageous statistic that 70% of black babies are born to unwed mothers. Jesse Jackson, the race-baiter that he is, interpreted this as "talking down" to Blacks instead of supporting Obama for his leadership.

(Please note as a point of clarification that those on the Left want to be loved by all, except those that are "rich" and "do not pay their fair share".)

Obama may be referring to the obvious problem of kids growing up not having a stable male role model in their lives, but what plan does he have to counter it?

It's easy to say "I'll do such and such to counter the gang/out-of-wedlock birth problem" but is Obama really going to be active in confronting the governmental policies and societal attitudes that have contributed to this mess? Let's not forget, a few decades ago these problems were very rare, but now they are everyday news and growing.

Lil Mama, Kelp and others are right to point out the contradiction between the stated intent of the political left and their practices. These folks are very fond of words such as "tolerance" and "diversity" and "inclusion", but when the