Drowning Victim Identified as City College Student

Most of the kids at the party will go on and be successful persons in life. This death was a wake-up call for them. Sad that it works that way--most college students will be productive at the price of the fall of a friend.

I'd love for them to find some other path to sanity.

Dear Independent staff: Wake up! The apartment pool did not claim this man's life, as this article claims What claimed his life is the fact that he lived and died in a culture that encourages alcohol consumption all the time. Why don't you speak out about this?...oh yeah, because it's too ingrained in your collective "peeps" downtown bar scene (Or do we call it "nightlife) that is so part of the cultural mix and of course, the U.C.S.B. scene. You wouldn't want to offend your readers would you?

The claim that Solstice festivities claimed his life is true to the extent that the encouragement of alchohol consumption is apparently part of that scene as well. If we didn't have a culture that hypocritically condemmed smoking (I'll acknowledge the danger/irritation of second-hand smoke not to mention the obvious damage smoking does to those with that habit) while painting drinking out as being cool maybe this man would have at some point in his life seen that getting plastered ISN'T cool maybe he'd be alive today.

In the meantime, this man, being only 23, probably has parents who are still alive and are dealing with the worst grief anyone most endure.

Yeah, blame the apartment, not his bad choices which were learned in an environment of bad examples.

wow, billclausen, don't just shoot the messenger, put a bayonet in him!

"Binky" did it ever cross your mind that this sort of reporting creates a mood of bias against the apartment complex?

How would you feel if you owned this complex and saw this in print? Think about it. THAT is what I'm griping about.

Once again, whose fault is it that this happened?

May I answer your questions with my questions (good!)?

Which apartment complex is this? Bias against whom?

Should incidents like this *not* be reported?

If you were griping about the "bias against the apartment complex," why did you provide such a vague, unsupported phrase "Yeah, blame the apartment"? Who was blaming the apartment? Is there any mention in the article of blame? And do you dispute the water in the pool *did* cause his death?

How far do you want to spread the blame (beyond the reporting of this by the Independent, that is)? Do you want to blame his friends? The people who (legally) sold him alcohol? The school, the Solstice organizers?

[ can 'o' worms officially closed ]

I'll sum up my feelings here, and let the chips fall where they may.

I don't know which apartment complex it was because it wasn't reported. According to what I've read in The Independent, the man was drunk. When people drink they make themselves vulnerable to such situations as this. Other examples are people who die in hot tubs after they've been drinking, people who fall off building ledges in I.V. after drinking, and many other "accidents" that result from drinking.

We live in a society that is so politically correct that we don't dare speak out on issues because we are afraid we will offend people and they might call us bad names. I used to be part of the politically correct crowd, but I no longer am.

My concern is that someday this will go to trial. (Most of us of a certain age remember the women who sued and collected over a million dollars from McDonalds because she spilled coffee on her lap while driving. The coffee was hot and it scalded her so my point here is that silly lawsuits are sometimes won) When a group of seasoned veteran writers such as what we have at The Independent say "Apartment Pool Claims Solstice Reveler"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This puts in mind that maybe somehow the design of the pool or the complex might have contributed to this man's death. While I do not accuse whoever wrote this of intentionally trying to bias anyone, I think it is a poor choice of words and it takes away from the fact that this man made a choice that got him killed. What I am attempting to point out is that when a culture speaks up with one voice and says that drinking is cool, more people are going to drink.

If a drunk person walks into a tree and hits their head and dies, do we say "Tree claims life of ..." (Fill in the blank)

I understand that most people who read this are going to disagree with me in large part because from what I can see, most people in S.B. drink on a regular basis. I can't claim any moral high ground because of the fact that I don't drink because for whatever reason, I was spared the need to put poison in my body which kills brain cells and destroyes my liver so I feel sorry for those who can't get by without booze. The fact that so many people here simply MUST drink, and in many cases, drive, indicates a spiritual void in their lives. As such, I can either sit around and watch it happen or try to make people aware of cause-and-effect. I want to also make it clear that I am NOT(!) calling for prohibition of alchohol, (or even drugs for that matter) since I recognize that doing so increases crime and makes the problem even worse. What I am calling for is two things: To make people aware that they need to speak out about issues when they know something is happening that is wrong, and secondly, I think The Independent staff should pull the part about the pool claiming the life of this man and instead make it clear that his drinking claimed his life.

I think I've covered it all but if you have anymore questions feel free to fire away.

Binky: I forgot to answer your question about who is to blame. The blame goes to those who encourage the behavior that gets people into these situations.

You wrote: "Should incidents like this *not* be reported?"

Of course they should, but it is the way this one that was reported that raises concern.

Then it's settled. The author is clearly responsible for the death of the boy--he might as well have held his head under water and watched him make his final kick. After all, he, by his very words, encourages debaucherous behaviour. Although the apartment pool physically caused his death--as was reported in the piece--irresponsible drinking was the apparent cause.

God forbid the author should report straight, unvarnished facts. There's even a chance that this young man's family, in all their grief, would have LIKED to read a scathing reproach of their son's actions. It seems that, according to Mr. Clausen, the author should editorialize in order to relate the REAL truth to the public, as well as disregard any feelings the family might have about reading said diatribe.

This is a very sad matter, but getting into the social implications of WHY the boy passed on seems out of the scope of this news brief. Perhaps Mr. Clausen should have a cocktail and relax.

"This is a very sad matter, but getting into the social implications of WHY the boy passed on seems out of the scope of this news brief. Perhaps Mr. Clausen should have a cocktail and relax." -SBknowitall-

SBknowitall: I will address your comments.

First of all, the purpose of these blogs is so that we can exchange ideas and hopefully all of us by bouncing ideas off each other can make our world better. You however, have chosen to lie about what I wrote and despite your pretentious call for truth, don't even get information straight.

First of all, since accuracy is so important to you, please tell the truth: This "boy" that you refer to is 23, which makes him an adult. Second, I never called for the story to not be told, nor did I say the story itself was inaccurate. The story itself was well-written and based on what the man (at least according to you it was a man, funny that you know it was a man that wrote that when according to the heading it was "indy staff") wrote, it appears the headline contradicted the overall story.

I tried to raise awareness about the style of reporting, which whether intentionally or not, makes a subtle indication that perhaps the design of the pool was the cause of the man's death. So far, nothing I've read indicates that is the case. Also, unlike you, I actually care enough about the state of my world to address the root causes of WHY we have the social problems we do, some of which were not epidemic in years past as they are today.

You choose to insult people and furthermore don't even have the courage to do so by signing your real name. I suppose those such as yourself know you have no valid argument and know you'd make a fool out of yourself in front of those who know you if you did sign your actual name. Of course, isn't this part of the same mob mentality of people who go downtown and get drunk? Or those who suddenly become so brave and aggressive once they are on the road and protected by their vehicles? Mob mentality anonymity--such courage. I know, these concepts seem "off topic" but they need to be pointed out.

It's easy to pick on the man who got drunk and got himself killed, but what I'm doing is pointing out that if we as a society don't address the societal attitudes that cause the problems that keep getting worse in our society then how can we cut down on the number of such tragedies? Of course the family is hurting, but if we don't speak the truth, how many more families will hurt?

Your screen name SBknowitall says it all: Arrogant and uninformed. God gave you a brain, how about using it to try to actually solve some of life's problems? Of course doing that might mean taking some uncomfortable positions now and then.

I realize I said "first of all" more than once, so you can spare the obvious.