Caltrans Gives Public Glimpse of Cold Spring Suicide Barrier

While Caltrans continues to tell the public that this project is about "saving lives", the actual goal of the project as stated in the Draft Environmental Impact Review is simply to keep suicidal people off the Cold Spring Bridge. Caltrans knows that barriers are not proven to save lives, and have carefully phrased the DEIR accordingly. For instance, the project goals as listed on page 1 of the DEIR are:

"1. Reduce the number of suicides at the Cold Spring Canyon Bridge.

2. Reduce the risks to emergency personnel such as law enforcement officers or search and rescue teams when attempting to prevent a suicide or when recovering a body."

Note these project goals are written so that the barrier will achieve them even if it does not save a single life.

The full DEIR can be found here:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist05/projects/sb...

Tragic suicides have driven distraught families to push for this probably futile gesture, and I can sympathize with their anguish. View lovers oppose it because it is ugly and is unlikely to really prevent a depressed person from committing suicide; common sense dictates that where there's a will there's a way. Caltrans just likes to build stuff. Net result, we are gonna get this pointless but well meaning fence. The world can never be made safe enough for some folks.

more wasteful government spending that nobody wants except for CalTrans.

what a bunch of horse manure.

If it saves one life (deters one suicide) it is worth any expense. Any other view strikes me as being mean-spirited.

How bloated and fragile of an ego does one need to accuse those of differing opinions of being "mean spirited"?

Hmmm...

Guess I join all the "mean-spirited" folks in saying that this is yet another make-a-job deal for Caltrans, and no matter what the public thinks, wants or observes, we are getting the fence. That's what gub'mint does: they come up with inane ideas, pretend to seek the input and approval of the public, then pat us on the head, tell us to sit down and be quiet, and do what they want anyway.

Just like the Adventure Pass.

Same scam, different name.

From page 4 of the DEIR:

``According to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's office, there have been approximately 162 incidents within the past eight years where law enforcement has responded to a suicide-related call at this location. The Sheriff has stated that for public safety, any call that puts law enforcement personnel on the bridge is considered a potential danger because of the low bridge rail, narrow roadway, and bridge swaying that occurs from cars or wind. If a despondent person is contacted on the bridge and struggles, it endangers both the officer and the person.''

``For example, on one night in 2006, two Sheriff's deputies and a California Highway Patrol officers were engaging a distraught man in conversation in an effort to dissuade him from leaping to his death. Suddenly, the man released his grip on the bridge and began falling. The law enforcement team lunged toward the edge ofthe bridge and grabbed his arm as he fell. In rescuing the man from this attempted suicide, the law enforcement team was exposed to a dangerous situation. As one of the deputies leaned over the help save the man's life, both of her feet were lifted from the bridge deck by the weight and force of the man attempting to jump. Her body was pulled on the bridge rail where her balance was shifted towards the edge; with the help of other officers she was able to regain her balance as the man was pulled to safety. This dramatic rescue was recorded on an in-car video and graphically shows the danger law enforcement personnel can be exposed to in attempting to prevent suicides on the Cold Spring Canyon Bridge.''

The legal settlement from a law-enforcement death in a situation like the one described above could well exceed the cost of the barrier. A well-designed barrier won't totally eliminate provocative behavior by a despondent person, but it would be `due diligence' to prevent law-enforcement death.

There is plenty of evidence that the barrier will save lives, in addition. Garrett Glasgow is skeptical of that evidence, but he has never been able to disprove the claim that net lives are saved.

And no-one disputes the fact that over 480 of 515 folks found despondent on the Golden Gate Bridge did not go on to commit suicide; a visit to a bridge does not mean that a person is irrevocably committed to a suicide. This is one of the pieces of evidence that supports the Cold Spring barrier.

As I have posted once before in this forum, there is a bridge in Washington DC, the Duke Ellington Bridge, over Rock Creek Park that for many years was known as "suicide bridge' due to the significant number of people who jumped to their deaths. So ugly barriers were put up at huge cost. Suicidal folk then strolled over to the Taft Bridge and continued jumping. And that was downtown bridge in easy reach of many thousands. If someone is willing to drive all the way out to Cold Springs to jump they will drive somewhere else too. As for the Golden Gate comment, if someone is found despondent one can presume that they perhaps were not too suicidal or else they would have been found floating instead. This reminds me of 1993 when a Pakistani terrorist jumped out of his car at an intersection near CIA headquarters in N. Virginia and shot a lot of people, the local Govt./CIA built a guardpost at that very intersection as if that was the only place that someone could jump out of a car and create deadly mayhem. What a knee-jerk waste of time and money.
That said the protecting of police personnel is compelling. perhaps they should have a policy not trying to grab jumping people unless they are somehow tied on. This bridge won't be the only place they face the possibility of being dragged over the edge.

How difficult could it be to jump over that fence?

Caltrans money should be spent on safety projects for those of us who don't wish to kill themselves. Officers shouldn't risk their own lives to prevent someone from killing them self.

A barrier doesn't "save a life", it just stops people from killing themselves in that location.

COMPLETE WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

dirtgirl, of course, 480/515 folks found on the Golden Gate Bridge in a distressed state did *not* go on to kill themselves.

There is already a terrific human barrier.... something like 20 responses a year to the Cold Spring bridge by law enforcement, and only 1 suicide per year.

I think a determined person could still go over the proposed fence. But already 19/20 are being dissuaded with the short fence that is there, a lot more will be dissuaded with a taller fence.

Here is another example of the grotesqueness of California politics today. Money is set aside in different "pots" and those who "manage" these pots are driven to spend them for fear that they won't get more until its gone. No sensible prioritization of needs is undertaken if one of the needs is for something outside the fiefdom of the pot guardian. Thus the idea that this money would be better spent, and save more lives, by providing mental health support is not even in the picture. CalTrans is not about to donate money (even if it were legal) from its pot to another. The voters are often to blame for these state of affairs as they continue to pass legislation creating these restricted uses. programs.

maybe they will have to commit suicide on the way to the bridge instead. Since you can't jump off it, should we now put a barrier between the lanes on 154 to keep them from driving head on into an unsuspecting motorist?

I think this fence sucks. You are eliminating one of the most striking views in the county, and a source of revenue for numerous filming events that occur there because of a few people who will find another way to take their lives if they really want to. LAME. I guess it will take them another 20 seconds max to get to the top of the new fence and in that time, a cop just happens to be rolling by?. I have a couple alternative ideas: 1. put a catch net underneath, maybe 10 or feet below the bridge. 1 foot squares in rope so all the debris will go thru still, but will catch a human. 2. Electrify the rails, and or a much smaller fence offset from the existing rails. Not with tazer level lethality, but just enough to make it extremly unpleasant. Use some solar cells and batteries for a charge buildup and then ZAPPA! You never make it to the other fence or in combination you fall into the catch net.

If you get thru all that, then you really want to go and wanted the attention for it. Why wouldn't one do something a little less spectacular in the privacy of their own home?

Good Neighbors,

I'm pretty sure that there is an alternative plan involving some more phones on this bridge and some stepped-up monitoring? I think the fence is not the best solution. The argument by the person writing as "sevendophins" makes a compelling point about protecting 1st responders. But if I worried about the risks taken, every day, but our police, firefighters, and other responders, I'd go crazy with worry.

In my view, the best solution to reducing suicides in our county is far more organic than the structure proposed. It's about keeping the funding focused on our mental health community.

Don Lubach

This barrier is just a Cal-Trans boondoggle. People bent on suicide will kill themselves without the dramatics described by "sevendolphins". They will jump before law enforcement arrives. If they can't climb the barrier, they will find another venue to commit the act.

According to a report by Garret Glascow (http://www.polsci.ucsb.edu/faculty/glasg...) there exists no data to support the premise that barriers prevent suicide in general. Evidently, the barriers only prevent suicide at that particular location.

Law enforcement officials should have procedures for dealing with potential jumpers that do not put their officers at risk. They probably do. That said, I'm sure that heroic efforts are not unknown in these situations and I applaud an officers willingness to risk their life to save another.

But I doubt that suicide prevention was ever the point of building the barrier. After all, in politics and government, "It's all about the Benjamins". (With apology to Puff Daddy).

Who do we send an email to? I was unable to make the Caltrans meetings.

The problem is once you put one of these lame ass bridge guardie thingees up, it is not ever going to be taken down. Case in point: Foothill Bridge. One used to be able to look out over SB as they crossed. Of course not a driver on their cell phone without an ear piece doing a text message smoking a cigarette while eating. Pretty view. No more. Views seem sort of analogous to your rights and freedoms, at what point do you say enough as they are taken away to protect people (that in some cases don't want to be protected) and to avoid litigation?

For those interested in submitting comments to Caltrans on the barrier plan, according to the Draft Environmental Impact Report you can send email or write to:

Cathy_Stettler@dot.ca.gov

Cathy Stettler, Senior Environmental Planner
Central Coast Environmental Analysis
California Department of Transportation
50 Higuera Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401

Be sure to do this before June 24th.

I should also mention that the claim that I "have never been able to disprove the claim that net lives are saved [by barriers]" is beside the point. The real point is that nobody has been able to *prove* this claim. Suicide researchers and public health officials all agree that we simply don't know if suicide barriers save lives or not.

http://www.polsci.ucsb.edu/faculty/glasg...

There is plenty of evidence that barriers do save lives, it is just that Garrett Glasgow has raised his standard of proof so high that no social science study of this issue could ever pass that standard.

His sort of argument... raising the bar to unreasonably high levels... is the same ploy used by the tobacco lobby for decades. They don't use it in the US much anymore, but you bet in China where the profits are now they spread the word that the proof is not absolute that cigarettes cause health problems. And indeed, there is a tiny portion of the population that suffers no serious ill health effects from heavy cigarrette use.

The study Garrett devised himself failed to illuminate in any way (positive or negative) whether bridge barriers prevent or enhance overall suicide rates. It was entirely inconclusive... a failure, but he tries to turn that failure into some sort of propaganda victory that `no proof exists' that barriers are effective.

It is still true that the vast number of people found on the Golden Gate Bridge (>480/515) in a distraught state did not go on to commit suicide.

The first responders at Cold Spring are strongly in favor of this fence. I think that resolves, for me, the issue that Mr. Lubach raises.

Also, we've already tried and have a `human barrier'..... 19/20 of folks on the Cold Spring Bridge (at least!) are addressed by the first responders.... and those humans who form the human barrier want a fence type barrier.

The biggest safety improvement this barrier might bring? Keeping people going 55 mph on a narrow bridge from watching the view when they should have their eyes on the road.

“In addition to the [suicide prevention] measures described, whose efficacy is attested to by the scientific literature, it is thought that other measures, such as the use of fencing on high buildings and bridges, could also contribute to a reduction in suicide rates, although there is no definitive evidence to support this idea.”

- World Health Organization, 1998

Prof. Glasgow, don't we just parse the WHO phrase differently....

`it *is* thought that other measures, such as the use
of fencing on high buildings and bridges, could also
contribute to a reduction in suicide rates'

is rather positive... they would only bother to put that phrase in if there was evidence that these things do contribute to a reduction in suicide rates.

but then `although there is no *definitive* evidence to support this idea' means the evidence falls short of absolute proof, but the evidence is still present.

The WHO makes a reasonable case *for* barriers.

Dear Sev' (commenter above at 2:57pm)--

Thank you for making it perfectly plain that you are merely (and madly) attempting to obfuscate the facts of this matter rather than to come to grips honestly with them.

3 million dollars for a fence! somebodies getting ripped off. I have to admit that I am always uncomfortable driving across the Cold Springs Bridge because of the low railing. But then, I am not interested in dying just yet. A higher one would make me "feel" safer but I don't think it will prevent suicides. If someone really wants to die there are a lot of ways to do yourself in besides jumping off a bridge. How about a shorter, less expensive one than currently proposed, plus a net underneath and the left over funds given to mental health services?

Hey Marc, the guys in orange Caltrans suits are bugging your house and surreptitiously tailing you. You've got good reason for your paranoia!

ciene... County Mental Health services is run so badly by the County. It is a travesty, but the County Admin would siphon off any money hoped to go in the County Mental Health. The current spending is over $40 million/year (all things combined) and the $100,000 a year from redirecting this project would just get lost and just end up paving CEO Brown's street or redoing its gutters.

Despite the high profile big name support for the barriers, I cannot support the idea in it's current iteration. I don't really believe a barrier will actually prevent a suicide from happening. At best it will only prevent a suicide from occurring on the bridge.

I agree that drivers should pay attention to driving especially on the 154. Still, there are many passengers that should be able to enjoy the beautiful view from the bridge.

Rather than using a steel mesh or fence barrier, why not use appropriately thick non reflective tempered glass squares somehow anchored together. There might be some maintenance issues but the view is preserved and suicides from Cold Springs Bridge are ostensibly prevented.

I'm no engineer or architect, maybe it's too much weight or maybe it would be too costly. Maybe no one ever thought of exploring this type of solution. Maybe this could be a win - win. Or maybe it can't be done that way. I'd be curious to know. If it could be done, I might even be willing support the idea.

Clearly though, building this barrier in it's current form is a contentious issue that will proceed without much (if any) regard to public input. Therein lies another tragedy of our "representative government".

The Caltrans bridge barriers proposal is a boondoggle that diverts funds earmarked for far more legitimate traffic safety work merely to try to divert occasional suicidal behavior from one of the great bridges of California, the view from which is a breathtaking delight for millions of people passing along Scenic Highway every year. It victimizes both the bridge and the millions of people who enjoy it for the sake of a cruel illusion that something is being done to save a few lives.

Of the more than 150 suicides that occur each and every year in this Caltrans district, only one occurs from the bridge, and nearly 200 people are killed in traffic accidents in the district each year, many as a result of unsafe road conditions that Caltrans has the duty to address.

Go to the website www.cscbfriends.com to learn the facts and see for yourself the documents that prove the case against the wasteful and ineffective barriers proposal. Notice there that boondoggle is defined as "any work or project of little or no real value financed by government funds; any useless work."

www.cscbfriends.com

The Cold Spring barrier is an important and helpful step that will reduce lives lost to suicide and reduce unnecessary dangers that law enforcement officers are subjected to.

Law enforcement responds every 2-3 weeks to a distress call from a distraught person on the Cold Spring bridge, often at night and in inclement weather. Most of these distraught people are helped, but the current low barrier endangers both the law enforcement officers and the distraught person.

The law enforcement officers who actually
respond to the Cold Spring Bridge strongly
support a barrier.

Studies of 515 distraught people found on the Golden Gate Bridge showed that >480 of them, or >94%, did not go on to commit suicide. This proves that people who go to the Cold Spring Bridge and threaten to jump are not irrevocably committed to suicide. Distraught people don't check whether a barrier is present or not; they just go. And then finding the barrier gives them extra time to think it over and not undertake a permanent solution to their
temporary problem.

Many high places that are publicly accessable in the world have barriers.

The vast proportion of drivers on the
Cold Spring Bridge are
single drivers, and should not be gandering at the view when they should be focusing on safe driving at 55mph. In any case, the proposed barriers don't remove most of the view that passengers would experience.

Good for Caltrans, the Sheriff, and the County Government on this one. The long term cost is $100,000 per year... a drop in the bucket compared to the $40 million a year now spent on County Mental Health. And the County Administration woefully mismanages the Mental Health funding... it already spends $500,000 a year just on contracting out ambulance service to Ventura just for Mental Health patients.

The Cold Spring barrier is the right project at the right time, and is worthy of all of our support.

sevendolphins, your droning repetitiveness and determination to have the last word reminds me of my 8 year old nephew pestering my sister for a new Transformers toy.

www.cscbfriends.com

Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

I'm delighted to keep you entertained, ETC. Saving lives is a topic worthy of pestering and persistence.

Of course, it summarizes the anti-barrier people quite well that you compare saving a life with a Transformer Toy.

You're right binky, sorry. Feeding the trolls is a bad habit of mine.

So if someone can't jump off the Cold Springs Bridge, won’t they be able to find another bridge or another way? Should all bridges be turned into wire tunnels? Maybe we should paint a blue line on the bridge too?

Drove the Cold Spring Bridge today... what an ugly piece of mid-20th century Caltrans architecture. The barrier will make it look a whole lot better.

It is only a matter of time until a rubbernecking driver at 65 mph collides with some bicyclists. The barrier will make drivers focus more on the road and make vehicle collisions less frequent.

Did you feel the urge to jump off it because there was no barrier? Perhaps we should place huge wire barriers along the Rincon so no one looks at those damn surfers. Those distracting jerks!

Rincon is not a narrow bridge... the `shoulder' for bicyclists on Cold Spring is really narrow... look at the photos above.

Rincon is not two-lane two-way traffic either.

Rincon is not a narrow bridge... the `shoulder' for bicyclists on Cold Spring is really narrow... look at the photos above.

Rincon is not two-lane two-way traffic with no center divider, either.

The Cold Spring Bridge might well be the most dangerous spot for cars on 154, although maybe it is so dangerous that drivers instinctively know not to do certain risky things like pass.

And so maybe other spots have more accidents because of the illusion of relative safety.

Be careful 7dolphins has a history of posting under different screen names to prove his point... like the name "snugspot" and he will pretend to be someone else agreeing with 7dolphins... what a weirdo....

Your comment about your nephew really made me laugh, so true, so true....

ITK, horseapples. I have one screen-name, and never post under another. Your paranoia has given me a good laugh, however.