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U.S. Helps Destroy Gaza


Monday, July 28, 2014
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Amazing that 100 out of 100 U.S.senators approved the Israeli invasion (thanks to American Israel Public Affairs Committee lobby) and said that the rockets from Gaza were unprovoked. Unprovoked! Israel has imprisoned the entire population of Gaza for eight years and that is not a provocation? Israel broke the 2012 cease-fire agreement 120 times, and that is not a provocation? Israel has randomly imprisoned hundreds of Palestinians and assassinated many despite its promise of no hostility. That’s not provocation?

The U.S. has blood on its hands. U.S. taxpayers are supplying or funding every explosive that tears a child apart in Gaza. I’m so ashamed of the U.S. government. I’m so ashamed of the corrupted media and citizens who don’t take responsibility to check alternative news like Democracy Now.

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Independent Discussion Guidelines

Infidel and Loving it!

dou4now (anonymous profile)
July 28, 2014 at 6:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This "infidel" comment resembles the Know Nothings of the 1840s... check out http://jstreet.org/

DrDan (anonymous profile)
July 28, 2014 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Izzies have shown much restraint in their attacks.

The Palies should not shoot rockets from civilian areas. If they did stop I would wager the Izzies would stop as well.
If the Palies would use some of that aid money to help their people instead of buying rockets from Iran things might improve.

sslocal (anonymous profile)
July 28, 2014 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What a joke.

The rockets fired by Hamas at Israeli civilians (a war crime) for 7 days before Israel took *any* action are destroying Gaza.

Hamas firing from mosque's, schools and residential buildings (also a war crime) is destroying Gaza.

Hamas smuggling weapons into Gaza by sea, land and air the 8 years since Israel left Gaza has destroyed Gaza.

Hamas constantly reminding everyone that they want to destroy Israel and Israel should be wiped out and never recognized as having a right to exist is destroying Gaza.

And also:
- Israel calls and text messages before firing missiles to tell civilians to clear out.

Mr. Azevedo's total lack of recognition of the above causes the destruction of Gaza - in his own very special way.

realitycheck88 (anonymous profile)
July 28, 2014 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gaza is a concentration camp for Palestinians, fenced in and guarded on the land side and blockaded on the sea side. Nothing and no one is allowed in or out without Israeli permission. It is no more likely that the inmates in Gaza have weapons to fire at Israel than it would have been for the inmates at Dachau to have weapons to fire at Germany.

All Jews were evacuated from Gaza in 2005 to allow Israel to bomb indiscriminantly without endangering Jews. In 2008 the Israelis hit Gaza with "Operation Cast Lead", a twenty-two day attack with drones, white phosphorous bombs, and explosive charges to demolish homes. 1,400 Palestinians were killed, 82% of whom were innocent civilians.

The U.N. fact-finding mission showed the Israelis had "a deliberate policy of disproportionate force" aimed, not a the enemy, but at the "supporting infrastructure" which meant it was aimed at the civilian population.

For the past five years the Israeli justice system has turned its back on Palestinian victims and the rule of law and no one calls them to account. Now they are attacking Gaza again with the same weapons and the same preposterous "rockets" and "tunnels" stories, They have complete confidence that they will get away with it.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 12:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ignorance, is truly Bliss!

dou4now (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 6:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There is no “Hamas” except by name. There are no “Palestinians” except by name. What is there is a stage prop for international media coverage against the State of Israel. The Islamofascist fanatics taunt the IDF to shoot at their rocket emplacements, leading to the injury or death of anyone nearby. The evil people in charge of this psychological warfare take the media to the worst slaughters so that the media’s television images of dead women and children can be used by Nazi/Islamists against the Jews of Israel.

Where does the money for the rockets, small arms, and material for tunnel building come from? This international war going by the name of “Hamas” is well funded by rich oil nations/billionaires who want to wipe Israel and all Jews from the face of the earth. Anyone who denies that this is happening is either willfully ignorant or simply part of the Nazi/Islamist fanatic crowd.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson, my boy, Hitler really looked down on theArabs and on Islam, do a bit of research. Here's Albert Speer, INSIDE THE THIRD REICH:
"Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire"
Your conspiracy obsession is empty.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's not be friends with the side that hates us. (Both sides hate us, so why be partial?)

We eat Israel's contempt for breakfast, and terrorist attacks for lunch. Jihadis know where Israel's whiz-bangs come from - USA. The GWOT vortex yawns before us.

Our form of govt invites corruption. AIPAC's annual "Policy Conference" is not even news any more. Netanyahu got 29 standing ovations from a joint session of Congress in 2011, like Kim Jong-un addressing the NK Assembly.

Think of all the money we'd save if we taxpayers funded election campaigns! So many birds killed with one stone! A government working for the people, specifically the American people.

The real conspiracy is that incumbent pols and big mass media are against public campaign financing, which runs against their self-interests. Who else is left to inform the public? It's grass roots or nothing. This is where power begins.

http://www.publicampaign.org/

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Davy Brown, I, too, can be metaphorically challenged, as in “who suggested that there is a conspiracy? Not I, ‘twas you that used the word”.

But I am on the opposite side of this controversy from you, so the divide is too great to suggest that, I suppose.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson,

The trouble with your analysis is that you don't know the history of Zionism.. You are trying to make a case based on the same media info that you criticize for taking the side of the Gazans. It is the current media that has supplied you with terms like "islamofascist". It would be better to ask how the Jews from the ghettos of Poland and Russia, who had no genetic or historical connection to Palestine came to be given a "homeland" there over the objections of Jews who had lived in the Middle East for centuries?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 12:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly:

I don’t know about analyzing any situation as serious as this one, and no, I didn’t get my information from the media’s Crackerjack box. It’s a war, which is by definition “a failure of diplomacy”. The Israelis are not there by accident, as you have implied, but by the design of many intelligent people who have had the blessings of the United States of America. “Palestine”, which is in itself a word made up out of mockery by the Romans who drove the Jews from their homeland into the Diaspora, is the place where people of the Hebrew faith have gone to live apart from those who hate them enough to gas them, cook their bodies for the fat with which they made their soap, and grind their bones into the fertilizer with which they grew their food. Apparently having their own Nation isn’t enough to protect them from their enemies, though, since they have had to fight ever since to remain alive. AND, I might add, they have done a rather admirable job of both the fighting and the living.

No, I think that any rational person can see the situation clearly: the war is not a “conspiracy” but is a concerted effort by not only the bad actors tunneling in and/or launching the rockets but by those who support them by giving them arms, ammunition, money, material, or verbal support by condemning Israel. The real villains are those hiding behind women’s skirts, allowing their own people to be killed for naught else but a media circus.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"dewdly"

Are you kidding?

- Hamas is not firing rockets at Israel?
- Hamas has not been firing rockets at Israel from mosque's and residential buildings?
- Hamas has recognized Israel's right to exist?
- Hamas has not smuggled weapons and war material into Gaza?
- Hamas has text messaged and robo-called potential Israeli civilians before firing rockets?

You appear to be a blind anti-semite with a heavy dose of conspiracy theorist mixed in.

realitycheck88 (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No realitcheck88, you're the one with the blinders on and you are not considering any of the facts you're being presented with which I notice happens often on here. .

1. Would you admonish Jews firing rockets from the concentration camps in Germany while their brethren were being put in gas chambers??

2. If the answer to question #1 was yes, then would you also support the justification for the German military for killing all of the prisoners of the concentration camps because a few prisoners were firing rockets from the camp?

Why do you not only admonish Palestinians for firing rockets from the concentration camps in Palestine, but also support killing all of the inhabitants for the actions of a few?

When you put humans in desperate conditions without any means of improving their lot in life or moving about, when you steal their land and resources, violence is the reaction one should expect to get back from that. Any other expectation is just completely unrealistic.

Why do you think Israel can just fence off Palestine into a concentration camp, continually steal their land and resources and not get any reaction from the civilians?

loonpt (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How odd that we would give Israel offensive weaponry and Iron Dome, after they chose not to warn us about the impending WTC attack, knowingly tried to sink the USS Liberty, etc, ad nauseam. With friends like Israel, who needs enemies?

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Because Israel is a Rothschild/Rockefeller creation.
http://counterpsyops.com/2012/10/29/i...

14noscams (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

by Andrew Carrington Hitchcock and Daryl Bradford Smith, updated Feb 2006

Definition of Zionism: an organization of Jews whose goal is to create a nation for Jews.
Definition of Judaism: Jews collectively who practice a religion based on the Torah and the Talmud.
... the people who have suffered the most at the hands of these Zionists are the Jews.

http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfor...

14noscams (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 6:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

don;t agree we're on opposite sides here, nativeson, I'm for the right of Israel to exist, but not for the merciless slaughter of anyone's children and civilians. Look under the Letter against Hamas by Mark Silverberg (a few days ago in this online paper) for some thoughtful discussion, Kevin and others and avoid the cranks on this thread like dewdly/loon/reality... also try please read David Grossman's very thoughtful and balanced plea: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy... From Haaretz 7/27 and in Int'l NYTimes 7/29 ("An Israel without illusions").

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 7:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson,

So you are saying that Talmudist Jews from Russia and Poland, who had no genetic or historical connection to the Middle East , were given a homeland in Palestine by "many intelligent people who have had the blessings of the United States of America".

In what way was it intelligent to set up and protect Jews from the ghettos of Eastern Europe in a land belonging to nearly a million Arabs?

Eastern European Jews did not come from the Middle East, their ancestors were not driven out of Palestine. Their only connection is mythological.

As for your lament about persecution of Jews in Europe, it is a little hard to see how Jews, who were 1% of the German population in 1933, could have comprised 48.5% of the lawyers in Berlin if they were being boiled down for their fat.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 8:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DavyBrown,

You cannot support Israel's right to exist and oppose the methods by which it came to exist.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 9:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

reality_check,

They are called "rockets" and not missiles or RPGs because they are not weapons - they do not have payloads. Rockets without payloads are fireworks. That is also why they never do any damage - the Palestinians could fire "rockets" for fifty years and never blow anything up.

The Palestinians locked inside Gaza couldn't even get out to get the signature of a Jewish judge to file a civil action for property loss after Operation Cast Lead in 2008. Nothing gets in or out without Israeli permission.

The sides are so unevenly matched that the Israelis invented the Muslim suicide bomber to make the Palestinians appear threatening - and dumb.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hamas has "imprisoned" Gaza, not Israel. If the Palestinian authority was in charge, none of this would be going on including the blockage.

With Hamas in charge, the Palestinian people will be "imprisoned" until they are dead or Israel is destroyed. There is no middle ground with Hamas.

Botany (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 10:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama running weapons out of Libya through Benghazi intending to go to Syrian rebels via the rat line through Turkey ended up in Hamas, Hezbollah and ISIS hands instead. Benghazi operation was closed down after protests from Israel.

Rebels attacked Obama's Benghazi operation in protest, and four Americans were killed. This is why Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi will not die no matter how many cover-up investitgations Obama tries to obstruct and why Trey Gowdy is the man to watch this summer.

Seymour Hersh was right.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
July 29, 2014 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

good points, Botany; if Abu Mazen [Abbas] of the Palestinian Authority inthe West Bank could "deal" or speak for the Gazans a truce might be possible.
sorry Jarv, Benghazi remains a sideshow, try to let go a bit, you'll be healthier and make more sense. And as usual, no webrefs from you.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 12:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, you seem to be a reasonable sort, not one of the David Dukes and the Ahmadinejad holocaust deniers. So, let me ask you: what is the alternative to the way that the IDF has determined they must use? Should the Israelis stop returning fire from the Arabs and just put up with having to live in bomb shelters the rest of their lives? The Arabs certainly aren’t going to stop. They are on record that nothing short of the complete destruction of Israel and Israelis is their goal. So, again I ask, “What is the alternative to the way that the IDF is conducting the war against the aggressors”?

Simply reversing the equation to make the Israelis out to be the bad guys is the endgame of the Dave Duke-Ahmadinejad guys, so I’m not buying it or anything akin to it. Obfuscating the real issue by concentrating on TV imagery is but a weapon of war….these days we call it “Psywar”. Images and noise, images and noise.

Not to diminish the lives of those who may be innocent, but why are they there? Why did they not leave? When I hear incoming, or even hear ABOUT incoming, I’m either gone or dug in so that I’ll have a measure of safety. It appears to me that the Arabs are either telling those people to be martyrs for their Satan or the people themselves are complicit in their own deaths and the deaths of their children. So for the fellow-travelers to try to make this war out to be one huge My-Lai massacre is not only misleading but also totally ridiculous.

Look, it’s a war. Not a game. Not a TV movie. Not anything but a war. How are wars won? By being a nice guy? I once spoke to a WWII B-17 pilot who stated: “The Nazis were bad. But we were badder”. And that’s what it takes. Consider what Berlin looked like in 1945. Or Dresden. Or Tokyo. Or Hiroshima, for that matter. As to the latter, these Arabs are playing with nuclear fire, and they should consider that when they are reveling in their various “victories”.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 7:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Woops! Since I've found no way to edit my posted comments, I'll add this one to state that I neglected to include the fact in my comment immediately previous to this one that it was directed toward the poster DavyBrown.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

in the narrow focus, ahistorically, sure, Israel feels very justified, although not a single Israeli civilian has yet been killed (about 50 attacking IDF soldiers). Hamas and its leaders are horrible and do use Gazans there to hide amongst.
We have to back up, get back at least to 1967, and ask like David Grossman does [see webref above], why haven't the supposed leaders of the more rational Israel EVER negotiated seriously about West Bank?? Land for Peace is still my mantra; and a Two-State solution with guarantees [e.g. Palestinian Authority/Abbas accept the right of Israel to exist; don't deal with Hamas which is on its last legs, hence their desperation).
HISTORY can help us here. When I ws in Israel in 1981 it was easy to visit the Western Wall, then walk up the ramp and go into the Dome of the Rock beside Al Aqsa Mosque...the colonization of W. Bank had barely begun. Will you, or Israel's leaders, allow Palestinians (not Hamas) to live in West Bank? Until 1967 -- this is well-documented -- Israelis were not insistent on having Jerusalem as capital or on taking over the W. Bank.
Honestly, I've been there 3x, I don't hate either side, I do detest extremism and refusal to negotiate. I am for children and civilians...these "lawn mowings" will go on and on... is this the world we want to leave our children? Israeli children? Palestinian children??
We do not have to be on opposite sides.
And much blame on USA, too, as well as the neighboring Arab states who preen they are for the umma and for Muslim fellow believers, but don't help them much!
Would you consider reading the Grossman article I referenced from Int'l NY Times?

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Botany,

If Hamas has imprisoned Gazans did they hire Israelis to guard the camp because Israelis come equipped with guns?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Israel Bombs Yet Another United Nations School, Killing Women and Children
Despite the UN Telling Israel 17 Times that the School Sheltered Civilians

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-b...
July 30, 2014

14noscams (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

14, since you seem to trust the UN, why don't you ask them to investigate what else was in the school or the schoolyard? I've noticed that there is no investigation into this, just condemnation with no evidence as to what was being targeted. The IDF are not dummies---they don't intentionally create casualties, they target enemy positions and ammo dumps. If you're standing over an ammo dump because someone told you to, well, whose fault is that?

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Davy Brown: I don’t find enough leeway in the subject to split the hairs too finely. There are always justifications about who is right and who is wrong, so I’ll leave that to those who care about them and not the situation. Here’s the deal: there is right and there is wrong, and those who say there is no right or wrong are wrong.

As for the “two state” scenario, I have always held that those who claim to be “Palestinians” should be given another area in which to live, funded by those who would otherwise pay for their arms and ammunition. Qatar, are you listening? I’m sure there is enough area elsewhere for those people to set up camp while Doha pays to create a city for them. That they or the other bleeding heart Arabs don’t and prefer to waste money on arms and ammunition speaks volumes about the Arab world.

Something else that needs to be said here that has to do with “the elephant in the room”. I know it’s not PC to say anything about mentally challenged people, but when will the world have enough of these idiots who place their own children where they know they will be killed? Who strap suicide vests onto their own children and tell them to blow themselves up? Who refuse to discuss anything approaching reason and insist that their plan to destroy Israel and the Israelis trumps all else? The intelligence level of those who know they will lose but depend only on the extremely remote possibility of a Pyrrhic victory cannot be very high.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson,

Well over a million Palestinian civilians have been killed or forced out of their country since the migration of Eastern European Jews began nearly a hundred years ago. This invasion was protected by armed British soldiers. At what point did the Palestinian residents become "the enemy"?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 4:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson,

La Raza claims a "homeland" in California. If Mexican immigrants want to establish Atzlan here and they are protected by a military force until they are well established how should the native Californians respond to the invasion? Are they wrong to defend their families, homes, land, and businesses? If they do defend themselves at what point will they be expected to leave or have "peace talks"?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is Israel bombing UN refugee centers and schools?

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 6:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good question, Ken Volok. Better yet, has anyone done any investigation into this to make certain that the idiot "Hamas" isn't setting off explosives in those schools? What's in or under or around those schools?

All that the "media" is concentrating on are "the children". Of course the "media" aren't biased or anything like that, but it does seem odd that people who claim to be objectively reporting a situation wouldn't do some investigative journalism to find out the FACTS.. Who told those people with their children to go to those areas? Why? Was "Hamas" in the area? What were they doing?

If someone could dig up some FACTS, I mean real FACTS, it would be helpful to the discussion. Otherwise I'm paying even less attention to this bit of sensationalism than what went on before.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 6:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A few thoughts: "Nativeson" makes some great points, and for what it's worth, I too get really tired of the media going on about "the children"--as if anybody who isn't little and cute has no merit.

I would also add that if you're female, you won't like it in any Muslim country.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

good points at first, nativeson. Did you glance at Grossman, an Israeli? Likely we do need to split hairs, and the "end" never justifies the means. What Netanyahu and IDF do certainly WILL rebound on Israel and its people, I'm very sorry to write.
You write, "those who claim to be “Palestinians” should be given another area" ... perhaps the Israelis "should be given another area" where it's safer for them? You aren't at all logical in this.
Your diatribe vs. indigenous people with many children, and who suffer under Hamas leadership, is pretty unkind, e.g. when you callously write about Palestinians, "...mentally challenged people, but when will the world have enough of these idiots who place their own children where they know they will be killed? Who strap suicide vests onto their own children and tell them to blow themselves up? Who refuse to discuss anything approaching reason" -- oh, I see, they're just stupid and mentally challenged, so WTF... Glad you finally came out from under your rock.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Obama running weapons out of Libya" .... you have to be kidding. Did you get that from WND.

I have read many tweets from Syrians and other interested Arabs, blasting Obama for not arming the rebels. I think the rebels would know that they are not getting any arms from the US. Why do you think McCain had photos ops with Syrians about Obama not helping. Please note that NATO has not helped, either.

I believe the following is true - there are US people on the ground that provided non-lethal equipment to vetted rebels. That there are US people on the ground training the rebels.

---- June, 2014
Barack Obama has called on the US Congress to approve $500m to train and equip vetted Syrian rebels, in what would be a significant escalation of US involvement in the conflict.

The White House on Thursday said it intended to "ramp up US support to the moderate Syrian opposition ... to help defend the Syrian people, stabilise areas under opposition control ... counter terrorist threats, and promote conditions for a negotiated settlement".

The funds would allow the US military to "train and equip appropriately vetted elements of the moderate Syrian armed opposition," said John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman.
------

At no time, would the Obama admin be involved in gun-running from Libya.

a) He got US oversight out of the Libya conflict as fast as possible, and handed the prosecution to NATO. Remember all the jabs about "leading from behind".

b) He has been opposed from the start to arming the rebels in any manner, because of the dire consequences that resulted from the arming those in Afghanistan, that later morphed into Al Qaeda.

c) The Syrians and other Arabs such as Libyans who wanted to help - in fact, some of them got involved - know that the US has not helped with arms, and they have complained loudly and often. It is just conspiracy nutcases like WND etc, who concoct these fanciful yarns.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 9:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has already captured the Iraq cities of Tikrit and Mosul, and is battling near the capital, Baghdad. The crisis has raised questions about U.S. reticence in Syria last year, when opposition forces - and some members of Congress - were pleading for active engagement and arms support amid mounting evidence that Assad had used chemical weapons against his own civilians.

"When you get farmers dentists and folks who have never fought before going up against a ruthless opposition in Assad," Mr. Obama continued, "the notion that they were in a position to suddenly overturn not only Assad but also ruthless, highly trained jihadists if we just sent a few arms is a fantasy. And I think it's very important for the American people - but maybe more importantly, Washington and the press corps - to understand that."

Obama was hammered fro the farmers, dentists remark.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama's Benghazi operation ran a rat line of weapons intended to reach Syrian rebels, but ended up in the hands of ISIS, Hamas and Hezbollah.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

His petticoat operation ran a fine line of brassieres and ladies' undergarments still hidden behind burkas today.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
July 30, 2014 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha,

The farmers and dentists remark is pretty funny considering that the "ruthless" Assad is an ophthalmologist.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 1:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No, Davy Brown, I didn't state that. Sorry it wasn't as clear as it should have been, but I am referencing "Hamas", which people I assume have their own children in the area. Or do they send them off to summer camp in Switzerland and only use "indigenous" people as cannon fodder?

I've noted you are quick to dismiss the opinion of others if they strike a chord of disharmony in your world.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 2:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

every child in Gaza isn't "a child of Hamas" or "children of Hamas" just as every kid in Israel isn't a "child of Likud", nativeson. I notice you are quick to indicate that the human beings unlucky enough to be constricted within the Gaza Strip "are mentally challenged people" -- didn't some guy in the early 1930s think Jews there and in E. Europe were "mentally challenged", too? Try being precise in your terms, sir, or you might be taken for a follower of eugenics or worse.
While the UK, USA, and UN bear a lot of responsibility (and honor) for the creation of the political state of Israel in 1947/48, and the Arab states bear a lot of responsibility for not helping those TRAPPED IN GAZA later, Israel too bears some responsibility for sealing them in there. When will the cycle of violence end...?
Ahh, I see, you couldn't handle David Grossman's wise words. It's Palestinian apartheid, just admit it. I am not hearing " real FACTS" from you at all.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 4:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You can't be serious, DB. I mean, really, what level of insincerity could possibly make you believe that anyone who puts a suicide vest on themselves or others has a lick of intelligence? Common sense dictates that the entire premise of terrorism is stupidity on a stick.

And no, Adolph did NOT think that the Jewry was mentally challenged, unless you think that his constant rants about how rich and conniving they were means that he thought that rich and powerful people are stupid. He was ENVIOUS, which was masked by hatred.

Also, I don't think that picking apart the situation such as apartheid or not or "oppression" or not or whatever is very helpful. The situation is that the stupid terrorists are lobbing rockets at Israelis and won't stop. Period. The object is to stop them from doing that, and you can't get there by promising them the moon or trying to figure out "where we went wrong" or anything else along those lines. None of that will stop them--oh, you might slow them down for a month or two or even longer, but they'll be merrily dig dig digging their tunnels and stockpiling arms and ammunition and rockets in schools and hospitals in the meantime while you think you've done a good thing. They are reprobates, DB, mere cowards hiding behind women's skirts and if that fails then they hide behind children or some vague construct of a failed religion.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 6:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Obama's Benghazi operation ran a rat line of weapons intended to reach Syrian rebels, but ended up in the hands of ISIS, Hamas and Hezbollah."

Source, please - with real facts and evidence.

Otherwise, it is as valid as "His petticoat operation ran a fine line of brassieres and ladies' undergarments still hidden behind burkas today.".

tabatha (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 7:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this is a ridiculous statement, nativeson, which I pointed out earlier: "I know it’s not PC to say anything about mentally challenged people, but when will the world have enough of these idiots who place their own children where they know they will be killed? Who strap suicide vests onto their own children" -- you paint with an absurdly huge brush. OK, OK, we support the IDF to bomb out ALL those children in Gaza, who all wear such belts (sheer crap).
Believe me, ALL the kids in Gaza strip aren't doing this, but you call them all 'mentally challenged' , what a prejudiced, foolish comment.
Equally off-base is your statement, "The situation is that the stupid terrorists are lobbing rockets at Israelis and won't stop. Period." BALONEY! How simplistic and self-serving! You whine about the facts, but do not dare go back even to 1967, or accept ANY responsibility on Israel's part. I discussed this; you don't dare to take it up, gee...why? I do support Israel's right to exist, I do NOT support theocratic "religions Zionism" -- do some research before returning with more nonsense like the above. Did you have the intellectual honesty to read and consider David Grossman's extremely thoughtful column I referenced? No, you cannot handle it, YOU and your non-thinking are symbolic of part of the the problem. Your thinking resembles that of the terrorists on the other side. You also feed the anti-Semites among us. Please, get a grip, and stop "circling the wagons" as Tabatha writes.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

He's referencing stories like this one from the WashPost, tabatha:

Quote from the article: "A highly classified annex to the report, not made public, described a secret agreement reached in early 2012 between the Obama and Erdoğan administrations. It pertained to the rat line. By the terms of the agreement, funding came from Turkey, as well as Saudi Arabia and Qatar; the CIA, with the support of MI6, was responsible for getting arms from Gaddafi’s arsenals into Syria. A number of front companies were set up in Libya." (Unquote).

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/0...

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson, under Silverberg's letter, A LOOK AT HAMAS, tabatha wrote, and do please consider her thoughtful words,
"Most groups of people under threat, think of their own survival and circle the wagons - where their view and understanding of a situation, for the most part, is blinkered by those circled wagons. There are always those few, however, who will look through the cracks and appreciate the views of the other side."
You admit "we're on opposite sides", meaning YOU are on one side (I am not) and there you have intellectually "circled the wagons", closed your mind, and are OK with this bloody tit-for-tat going on until...whatever, something even more terrible happens to one or both sides. You cannot handle Grossman's even-handedness, so you're partisan, and thus can't think straight. How sad, and inane. Where is dolphinpod14 and his black irony, eh?

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Trey Gowdy's special investigation will be finally presenting all the facts you need about Obama's gun-running operation out of the "special annex" in Benghazi funded by the Saudi's and Qatar. However, there is plenty of solid information already out there with even a minimal search. But even more importantly there are dozens of questions that still remain officially unanswered every time Obama sends out another and contradictory Benghazi smokescreen cover-up response, including his refusal to reveal where he was as the Benghazi events were unfolding.

You could start with the anti-Islamic video lies he used during the 2012 election campaign and work from there. Or you can wait until the Gowdy hearings and watch this story unfold for yourself. No, it is not a conspiracy to present these facts. It is a conspiracy still ongoing to cover them up.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OK, DB, you keep harping on the “Grossman article”, but your link didn’t work for me, though I tried it many times.. This one worked for me:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/28/opi...

I think that, to sum up what Mr. Grossman is about would be to say that we must stop focusing on our differences and begin focusing on our humanity. It is imperative that the aggressors who oppose the existence of Israel open any dialogue, but they won’t. So, it would do no good for Netanyahu to open the dialogue, because “Hamas” would only take that as a sign of weakness and exploit the opportunity in a violent way. Perhaps dialogue with Abbas would be good, but he is powerless. So, what to do but live in the bubble?

I once had a neighbor with whom I had a disagreement which went on for several years. One day in a public place I saw him standing there and I simply walked up to him and began talking with him (not to him), bringing up many of the things we have in common—our families, our age, how we both have had the same surgery, etc. Yes, he did respond with conversation, his response was friendly and after twenty years we no longer have a feud. Would that everything in the world could be resolved so quickly, eh? But individual initiative is not political initiative, it’s individual.

Grossman uses his sense when he writes: “More people on the left understand now that the right wing’s fears are not mere paranoia, that they address a real and crucial threat.” According to several polls which have recently been taken in Israel, the percentage of Israelis who support their government’s actions is close to 100%. So, yes, circling the wagons seems like a good idea for them, obviously.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Daily Show host Jon Stewart delved into the complications on Tuesday of the United States trying to spread peace through the Middle East in part by selling weapons across the region.

“We’re like the Oprah of Middle East weapons systems,” he said. “You get some bombs! You get some bombs! Everybody gets some bombs!”

Stewart argued that the U.S. has “peaced” countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and several others around the area “to the hilt” with billions of dollars worth of weaponry including missiles and attack helicopters."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/30...
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/yt7...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The U.S = Barack Hussein Obama, Commander in Chief.

The same Commander in Chief who recently asserted 100% authority over Congress unilaterally releasing the Gitmo 5 in violation of Congressional restrictions. That same Commander in Chief who controls all things military and all things administratively under his watch.

The Benghazi buck stops with Barack Hussein Obama. Exactly where was he when the Benghazi events were unfolding.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson,

The "suicide vest" like the "Muslim suicide bomber" is a total fabrication. The Israelis have implanted those fantasies in the minds of the gullible to make what's left of a thoroughly defeated people look like a real threat.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jarvis Jarvis and dewdley a one two punch of teh stoopid.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly: No, they are not only real but sold in the marketplaces throughout the Mideast. A very good family friend of ours, an Army colonel, brought (an empty one) back from Iraq, and showed it to us. Made of cloth, it had pouches front and back for explosives and ball bearings or other shrapnel. At least hundreds of them are manufactured daily---throughout the Mideast, maybe thousands of them. Of course not all are used----yet anyway.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The reason Israelis periodically attack the Gaza concentration camp is that jaded Americans need a periodic injection of outrage. The American public tuned out the "peace process" forty years ago - boring, boring, boring. Wake 'm up, Bibi! The U.S. Congress is behind you - 29 standing ovations just two years ago - must be some kind of record.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@nativeson, you are trying to reason with the unreasonable. This poster believes that the I V shooting was staged. He / she is a CT troll feeding is not recommended.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OK, HG, I just thought that since there was false information given that there were no suicide vests it might be good to correct any misperceptions.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The distinction between Israel and the US is so vague that the two governments are almost the same. Congress would rather kiss up to Bibi than Barack, and more importantly, Israel controls the US monetary policy and banking politics in general. Has anyone noticed Stanley Fischer in the Federal Reserve?
No congress person can dissent from the Fed. The only way out is to dismantle the Fed completely. It should begin to become clear to Americans why Ron Paul was perusing this. It's fundamental to the USA becoming a sovereign nation, which it isn't. It is owned

random_kook (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I say lets flood the area with Buddhists.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

U.S. sells ammunition to Israel
Jul 31, 2014 at 7:11 AM PDT

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-...

Sure doesn't look like the US is moving in the right direction.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel Grynszpan jumps in to divert attention when nativeson's childish beliefs are exposed.

The suicide vest is one of the more preposterous inventions of Israeli/Hollywood scriptwriters. Grynszpan doesn't want to remind us that Benjamin Netanyahu himself told us a few years ago that there were "underground suicide vest factories" everywhere in Palestinian territories. A silly tale, long forgotten and now embarrassing to hear nativeson's naive embellishments.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm guessing this is about how most of the suicide bombings play out..

A double-agent for Mossad and Hamas goes up to some poor sap and tells him that if he doesn't put this vest on and walk into a cafe in Israel then they will kill his entire family after raping all of his wives and daughters and then torture him to death once it is all over.

The vests are probably manufactured in Israel.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PDFTT

nativeson (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

loonpt,

Not only the "vest", but the entire concept of the "Muslim suicide bomber" is a fabrication for purposes of false flag attacks. It is totally unnecessary to kill the bomber with the bomb. Bombs were used repeatedly and successfully by Algerian Muslims against the French nearly sixty years ago and none of them were carried by a suicide bomber. Even then, bombs were detonated remotely. Like everyone else today's Muslims have cell phones.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

random_kook: Agreed. Check out dual US-Israeli citizenship in US administrations; I found a site that had a long list for dubya Bush, and haven't looked for info on Obama. Dual citizenship is very marginally legal in the US, since dual national voting is banned and not easily verifiable. Kissinger was listed as something equivalent to "presumed" dual citizenship.
I saved the link, have no time now to look it up.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 5:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

good, nativeson, we do have to focus on our common humanity, our love of children and respect for the elderly of whatever denomination. Sorry my link to Grossman didn't work, I'm abroad and only had link to the Int'l NYT.
Abbas is really trying, and he might be someone the Israeli government could parley with. The KEY issue really is debating the 1967 borders, and Israel's colonies of illegal settlers in the West Bank. You fail to debate this point. Try Avi Shavit's terrific MY ISRAEL. Please note: the West Bank under Abbas has NOT exploded with violence, despite some issues there: this is a good sign. We do all live under the bubble; we don't have to be "on opposite sides" as you initiated our conversation.
Latest from The Guardian:
"The [72 hour humanitarian] ceasefire was first announced in New Delhi during a diplomatic visit by Kerry. It followed mounting international outrage over the shelling earlier this week by Israeli forces of a UN school sheltering thousands of Palestinian families who had fled their homes after being warned by Israel to evacuate ahead of bombing. At least 15 people, including sleeping children, were killed and hundreds injured.
"Ban condemned the attack as “outrageous and unjustifiable” and President Barack Obama’s press secretary , delivering an unusually forthright response, called the attack “totally unacceptable” and “totally indefensible”. "
If nothing else, Israel is wildly losing the war for world public opinion, especially in Europe, and nativeson you agree this is ultimately bad for the State of Israel and it's inhabitants, no?

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
July 31, 2014 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

After the 1973 war, during which we flew beaucoup whiz-bangs to Israel, OPEC embargoed us. (Remember gas station lines, stagflation?) Ah, but we may yet reminisce about those times, now that the stakes are higher.

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 12:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DB: Yes of course it is very bad for the State of Israel to be ‘losing public opinion’, but that is the goal that “Hamas” establishes as their baseline for the prosecution of the war. That is the “Pyrrhic Victory” that they ultimately hope to achieve, and the only reason they are continuing to fire rockets toward Israeli communities. They know that they cannot win their fight against Israel, so the cowards hide behind women’s skirts and the bodies of their children to build the casualty count which they know looks bad for Israel.

There have always been civilian deaths---called “collateral damage”—during any war, but most especially during more modern warfare. With the weaponry that is used it is unavoidable. While that is certainly an evil in itself, the fact that there are those who are so immoral that they would deliberately place those not involved in fighting the war in harm’s way, then direct their opponents to kill them in order to achieve media attention in the hopes that there will be eventual condemnation of the enemy, is quite possibly the most base evil ever devised and leads to my conclusions that those who do such things are, in one manner or another, “mentally challenged”.

In other words, the anger of world opinion should be directed toward those cowards who are using their women and children as weapons of war and bragging about their deaths to the international media. They are truly evil people, part of the “moderns” who believe that morality is an outdated concept. Those bums are counting on those “worldly moderns” who are so giddy with their moral relativism that they have stumbled into invincible ignorance and thus do not know base evil when they see it. Worse, there are those who know it but do not care.

It is not wrong for people to be frustrated about the deaths caused by Israel’s defenses, but “public opinion” should never be allowed to become merely a weapon of warfare.

What is more important, in my opinion, is to concentrate on some way to end the cycle of violence. The complete and total disarmament of “Hamas” is a starter, banishing them and their radical ideas from the political process worldwide is more important yet, and the establishment of a totally separate state for the “Palestinians”, with the help of all Arab states (many of whom could provide land and/or money), is yet another ideal. The government of Israel would be wise to help with this; of course any such establishment should be conditional on promises of peace and the removal of any idea of eradicating Israel and the Israelis.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 3:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This "moral equivalency" argument falls flat: "There have always been civilian deaths---called “collateral damage”—during any war, but most especially during more modern warfare. With the weaponry that is used it is unavoidable. While that is certainly an evil in itself, the fact that there are those who are so immoral that they would deliberately place those not involved in fighting the war in harm’s way..." Oh, I see, war is hell & some civvies always get killed, & we have to, but THEY "are so immoral that.." We are justified. No way, man. The enlightened "civilizaed" gov't of Israel can and should be better; reread Grossman; otherwise, all these humans are confined to "the crucible" because THEIR LEADERS HAVE GONE INSANE, and on both sides. Thus you accept an eternal circle of violence, as you and"the other side" just keep circling the wagons.
Further, Israel is losing the war of WORLD public opinion, and, honestly, I am more for Israel than you in this matter, Israel WILL pay for losing this bigger, moral, contest. Do you SEE how much anti-Semitism is on the rise? Losing this world war of opinion brings these awful haters right out n the open; repeat, I am more for the survival of Israel than you are. Separate from the religious Zionists, stick with the political Zionist survivalists, negotiate a Two-=State solution and barter land (West Bank) for Peace... hey, you bargained Sinai away to Egypt for peace, and that's working, think about this...

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 4:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I quite agree with your final paragraph; there is hope. And yes, eliminate Hamas, IF possible (I don't know)...apparently there are much more sinister sorts behind Hamas, Netanyahu has stated he doesn't want to totally finish off Hamas, an immoral comment, and it will not work.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 4:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's immoral for the US to support any state that discriminates on the basis of race or religion. Of course it's also undemocratic for the US government to distribute tax revenues to foreign governments.
The US should consider Israel a failed experiment and work with the UN to redraw the map with the goal of creating a land where different cultures can live together in peace. Maybe try an experiment in democracy.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RK: Forcing people who so obviously hate each other to live together is not a good idea. In case it hasn't become glaringly obvious, it does not appear that democracy works for any of those cultures in the Mideast. If Israel were forced to incorporate into an already failed state such as the "Palestinians" have, the situation would become much worse than it is today.

You cannot pass laws or otherwise mandate that people should like other people. It just cannot be done. Such attempts are at least partly at fault in the increasingly rapid disintegration of the democracy we once had right here in these United States of America.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't mean to be insensitive, but when people are getting killed we have to question all the basic assumptions. I see the connection between racial integration and security, but America has proved that it can work. Israel already has the security, they are in a good position for integration. Why don't they evacuate the innocent civilians from Gaza into Israel?

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Quite possibly you are correct, RK, it's just that I'm extremely pessimistic about the outcome; and that mainly has to do with the historical fact that given promises have consistently failed to reach fruition. In a culture where there is no honor in keeping one's word, no shame in hiding behind women and children, no compunction against sending a mentally challenged "martyr" to his death via suicide vests, no treaties or really any documents have any meaning.

I guess the question would be: If you were to let those people in, how do you determine who is going to set up an IED or otherwise go back on his word? Our guys in Afghanistan and Iraq have had to live with that level of paranoia for a long time now, and it ain't fun. The Israelis live it on a daily basis and of course would rather decrease than increase the anxiety level.

So, to be quite honest about it, I don't know if there is an answer that will work. But there's a lot of questions.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson says:

"Forcing people who so obviously hate each other to live together is not a good idea."

Then wouldn't you have to say that the program begun in 1922 that gave military support to Russian Jews to set up a state in a land occupied by a million Arabs was a bad idea? Not even the resident Jews wanted the invasion that was forced on them by world powers.

It never was about importing "democracy", it was about importing foreigners by force of arms. The Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate didn't say anything about democracy.

There were a lot of people who, like you, foresaw disaster and even Judge Brandeis who had helped the Zionists by putting pressure on Woodrow Wilson had second thoughts when he saw the reality. He backed away and suggested that the Zionists be given a university and a cultural center - not a "homeland" in someone else's home.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 6:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

after WW I there were enforced population transfers from the Aegean coast of "Turkey" (not an historic state) with Greeks going to Greece, and of Turkish Moslems being forced to move over to the newly created "Turkey" of Kemal Ataturk...there had been genocidal attacks on the Pontic Greeks as well as the Armenians by Turks... this population transfer, after the initial pain, has worked out, although Greece and Turkey both dislke each other still.
So dewdly there IS historical precedent for the creation of new states, e.g. Israel (and Bulgaria and Romania, etc.). I like RK's idea of a population transfer of the 1.7 million Gazan "refugees" to...West Bank, to Jordan, to Saudi Arabia... The Israelis may elect some new leaders to negotiate with Abbas of West Bank and it IS possible the two sides will "grow up" (ref. David Grossman NYT article DavyBrown notes far above here) and begin to seriously negotiate. It is NOT impossible.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 7:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just because there have been enforced population transfers in the past doesn't necessarily make them right or just. That they may or may not have worked out is, I would argue, is not relevant to justice.

However, from a practical viewpoint, there may be some small lessons learned.

The Palestinians got shafted after WW1 and their descendants continue to get shafted even more. Symbolically speaking, those once mightily persecuted have become the persecutors themselves. It's a crying shame.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 1, 2014 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Forget Gaza, California National Guard are deploying to Ukraine:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08...

Who are they fighting for?

The propaganda says the IMF and World Bank:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opin...

I think it's for Joe Biden.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 2, 2014 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's terrible to see anti-Semites and Israel-haters emerge on some of these threads, but when Netanyahu LECTURES a U.S. President " 'not to ever second-guess me again[.]' " and orders the USA to totally support Israel's war crimes in Gaza... Netanyahu FEEDS these horrible anti-Semites. Israel needs a different government, one prepared to negotiate a Two-State solution bargaining land they've illegally colonized (West Bank) for peace.
Here's Al-Jazeera about 7 hours ago:
"Following the breakdown of a lull in fighting, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly spoke by phone to United States Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro, expressing his anger that the U.S. tried to force an immediate cease-fire with Hamas.
According to people familiar with the call, Netanyahu told the ambassador that the Obama administration was "not to ever second-guess me again." The prime minister added he "expected" the U.S. to fully support Israel's actions in Gaza. "

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 2, 2014 at 10:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here is the Al-Jazeera ref: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles...

@EB, my point about "[Just because there have been] enforced population transfers in the past doesn't necessarily make them right or just." was a reference to randomkook's suggestion "Why don't they evacuate the innocent civilians from Gaza into Israel?" -- there is historical precedent within the last hundred years, and to some extent it has "worked", at least Greece and Turkey don't have an impossible "Gaza strip" pseudo-solution, and while these NATO allies quite dislike each other, there hasn't been an open war since the transfer ca. 1920. There has been such a [enforced] population transfer in Cyprus after the 1975 short war there (Cypriote Turks went north, above Famagusta; Cypriote Greeks from the north went south).
What about a UN enforced plebiscite in Gaza - a 'right of return' to West Bank or Golan area OR go to Jordan, where a great man Palestinians went after 1948. It is true the neighboring Arab states need to step up and help the 1.8 million suffering Gazans in non-lethal ways.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 2, 2014 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

At least we can all agree that Netanyahu is a monster, more akin to Putin to anything or anyone civilized.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 2, 2014 at 10:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No room in the Peace Movement for anti-semitism or blanket anti-Israelism anymore than there's room for anti-muslim or anti-Palestine people. No Nazis welcome.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 2, 2014 at 10:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken_Volok,

You should ask yourself why the "Peace Movement" never moves.

If everyone agrees that Netanyahu is a "monster" why are you so reluctant to look at the Zionists who preceded him? Like his father, Benzion Netanyahu? Menachem Begin, Ariel Sharon, Yitzhak Shamir, , and the premier Revisionist, Vladimir Jabotinsky?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 2:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Because those people aren't in power. I don't live in the past, I live now.
And what's your problem with Vladimir Jabotinsky, he started a Jewish Defense Center in the Ukraine like 1900. I'm sure you'd rather not discuss Eastern European pogroms being a Holocaust denier yourself. Go suck an egg.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 2:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dr. Dan writes: “What about a UN enforced plebiscite in Gaza - a 'right of return' to West Bank or Golan area OR go to Jordan, where a great many Palestinians went after 1948. It is true the neighboring Arab states need to step up and help the 1.8 million suffering Gazans in non-lethal ways.”

Dr. Dan, I have long held the same thoughts on the matter, that other Arab states, in particular those which constantly berate Israel for not treating the “Palestinians” better, should help by creating another “Palestinian” area. However, the Jordanian experiment turned out badly, due in large measure to the continued bad acting by the “Palestinians” themselves. The PLO and splinter groups (which are still a problem even for “Hamas”) were crossing the Jordan and raiding Israel, causing the IDF to counterattack causing death and destruction not only for the PLO et al but Jordanians also, and they were also at war in one way or another with Jordanian forces, whose authority they refused to recognize. Eventually King Hussein became disgusted with them and ordered their encampments to be attacked, resulting in the deaths and removal of many hundreds of Palestinians. At one point the Jordanian army had some villages surrounded and bombarded by artillery, causing many deaths among civilians and their eventual removal (though a sizeable population of “Palestinians” remains there).

So, you see, though we may hope for such a solution, history has proven to other Arab states that the “Palestinians” (and I use the word loosely because there’s no telling how many factions from God knows where claim now to be “Palestinian”) are too volatile to handle and would prefer using them as propaganda against the State of Israel. In this regard the “Palestinians” are mostly not welcome elsewhere; they are but pawns in a game for the majority of the Arab states.

I still think another area for the "Palestinians", created by the Arab states is best. But I also agree with you about the possible "right of return" to the West Bank. What might work in the meantime is a sort of Arab UN to police Gaza. Several of the Arab states could involve their military in keeping the peace there, preventing the radicals such as “Hamas” from attacking Israel and attempting to quell the rampant bribery, corruption and other outright thuggery that keeps the people from ever attaining any quality of life. However, as I’m certain you can see, the Israelis would most likely be at the least hesitant to having armed forces of whatever Arab nation encamped nearby.

Thus we are still left with many questions but no solution in sight.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 3:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sha'alu shalom Yerushalayim.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 4:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hamas has brought this destruction to the Palestinian people and no one else. The Palestinians in the West Bank live in peace. Those under Hamas control suffer at the hands of Hamas and no one else.

Botany (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 6:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

bit simplistic there, Botany, and I detest Hamas, too. How did 1.8 million people get crammed into Gaza Strip in the first place? Why don't more Arab countries help them or offer sanctuary (Jordan received a lot)? The Palestinians in the West Bank LIVE UNDER OCCUPATION, don't you even know that? The original impetus of this last "lawn mowing" enacted by Netanyahu, Liebermann & rightwing Israeli regime came from the murder of 3 Jewish colonist teenagers IN THE WEST BANK... do some reading.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a very interesting interview with Paul Hirschson about the Gaza/Hamas conflict. Interestingly, and which should be reported by the Media, is that Hamas used $1.2 billion to create tunnels instead of hospitals, schools, etc.

There is not a direct URL.

http://www.msnbc.com/weekends-with-alex
and look for the video titled "Israeli spokesman describes their options".

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Did you really mean to step in your own stupidity that deeply Dr Dan?
"...but when Netanyahu LECTURES a U.S. President " 'not to ever second-guess me again[.]' " and orders the USA to totally support Israel's war crimes in Gaza... Netanyahu FEEDS these horrible anti-Semites."

Yea he said that AFTER accepting a cease fire pushed by the ignorant and impotent U.S. that DID NOT INCLUDE the ability of Israel to continue to seek and destroy the tunnels built with money intended for humanitarian projects. Hamas terrorist butt heads used the tunnels during the cease fire to kill more Israelies. Kerry and crew have been lambasting Hamas since they broke the cease fire after less than 2 hours; Netanyahu simply spoke the truth after getting cajoled into some of our typical naivety.
It appears as if the left does not know how to handle or rationalize the blatant disregard by Hamas for it's own citizens.

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hamas never had any intention of governing. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, and we don't negotiate with terrorists.

Rather than governing as responsible people should, Hamas used charity money, given with the intention of building hospitals, to build tunnels, proving what we already knew, that the only reason they wanted political power in Gaza was to use the cover to build fortifications, attack tunnels, and mine the hospitals and UN schools with explosives in order to make it appear that Israel was purposely targeting those buildings and the people within them.

The international community, never wanting to give any credence to the modern, civilized state of Israel, was either naïve enough to believe Hamas or cynical enough to not care what they did.

nativeson (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

gosh, thanks for the petty lecture, nomore! You show naivete when ranting at me as a leftist, muchless-sanity.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you for the thoughtful video ref., Tabatha, I've never supported Hamas in any way [read posts above]. Whatever nomore rants about, Netanyahu is nonetheless an animal, who sponsors the killing of children, and whatever one thinks of Hamas, Netanyahu's NOT helping Israel at all, and especially not in the "war" for world public opinion. Lecturing a US President when you need US support, munitions, $3.4 billion per year, and more is simply stupid.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Personally, DrDan, I don't think Israel NEEDS the billions as much as it ACCEPTS those billions, and if, in a fit of pique, the Senate decides to do away with the funding, the shortfall would most likely be made up by worldwide contributions from the friends of Israel (not speaking politics here).

It might be more helpful if people could see that it is HAMAS and not Israel that is killing Palestinians. After all, would you let someone throw rockets at your wife and kids and not become angry enough to do anything to stop them? What would you have Israel do? March voluntarily off to the gas chambers?

nativeson (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha,

If Hamas used 1.2 billion in aid to build tunnels why don't the Israelis bomb the tunnels instead of the schools and hospitals?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nativeson,

Put the shoe on the other foot - switch Israelis with Palestinians in your questions:

After all, would you let someone drop bombs on your wife and kids and not become angry enough to do anything to stop them? What would you have Palestinians do? Try to escape the enclosure? March voluntarily off into the desert.?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan,

The Zionist program was not a population transfer in the sense you describe. Russian and Polish Jews were not transferred to Palestine as part of a war settlement and Palestians were not given a new home elsewhere, but rather the residents of Palestine, both Jews and Arabs, were forced to take in Eastern European Jews who had no historical or racial connection to the Middle East.

At the same time in Russia the leadership of the successful revolution and formation of the communist state was predominantly Jewish. The vast number of European Jews lived in areas that were soon to be included in the Union of Soviet Social Republics and ruled by their Jewish brothers - so why run off to a land populated by Arabs and requiring the protection of the British military?

Only by dehumanizing the Arabs can one justify the notion that the Arabs are being unreasonable to resist an armed invasion by foreigners. Even pacifists understand a defensive war. It is human to fight for one's land, one's home, one's family, and one's people. That is why the Zionists know this is a zero-sum game; only one side can win and the other must be destroyed. Negotiations and compromise are unrealistic and that is why the "peace process" never procedes. The realist is like Benzion Netanyahu who told Jason Epstein of the New York Review of Books, that the only way Israel could survive is by "killing all the Arabs."

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sure are a lot of history buffs here.
Why do other cultures always pester the Jews?

LOOKINGFORAGOODREAD (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As with so many issues related to the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there is often no black or white, just shades of gray.

The tunnels have certainly been used to bring in rockets and weapons. But Israel's 7-year blockade of Gaza has starved the population and deprived them of basic goods and services. So is it a surprise tunnels are being built to bring in food, diapers, soap, and medicine as well? Even then, prices are so high most can't afford the smuggled goods. A recent BBC report described how the blockade has ruined the Palestinian economy in Gaza.

Listen to the BBC World News. They have live reporting on the ground and have better real-time analysis than much of the US-based media.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EastBeach nailed it once again.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EastBeach,

If there were tunnels that could be used to bring in supplies the Gazans wouldn't be without necessities, so what one must conclude is that there are no tunnels.

It is also true that people who are imprisoned don't build tunnels to bring in supplies, they build them to escape.

It's not easy to make the inmates of a concentration camp look like a threat to the world's fourth largest military (per capita), armed with the most sophisticated weaponrs. On the other hand, it appears to be quite easy to fool the American public.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Uhm dewdly, the Gazans have boasted of these tunnels. The Egyptians themselves flooded and sealed up tunnels going into Egypt. Your sad devotion to choosing a hero and a villain between Hamas and Israel is only making you look like a bigger tool than your previous posts on other topics.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 3, 2014 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken,

The tunnels do not exist. If there ever had been a tunnel the Israelis would have bombed it. The IDF will use any excuse to bomb Gaza and demolish homes, schools, and hospitals. When they don't have a plausible excuse for the genocide they resort to the implausible.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSt...

Another $225 million bonus for getting the high score in civilian deaths.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lets watch democracy in action one more time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Bwq...

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hamas spent over $1billion dollars on building tunnels instead of schools and hospitals.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Read it and weep dewdly, the Egyptians have been finding tunnels for years and just recently as well:

https://www.google.com/search?q=egypt...

Again you take the juvenile approach of trying to make heroes and villiains out of this mess when I say a pox on both houses of Hamas and the Netanyahu.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not taking sides, just pointing out that none of this would be a problem if we didn't have the federal income tax. I don't like spending my earnings on ammunition. And we go through a lot of it.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 6:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was meaning you random. And I agree with your opinion about HOW are tax dollars are spent but not with the fact that we have Federal income tax. For instance, we already have a problem with only upperclass people being able to run for Federal office, if you cut that expenditure we'll only have uberwealthy people being able to afford to serve in office. In addition we do need defense spending tho not as much as we're spending and a host of other items our federal taxes cover.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tabatha,

If there are 1.2 billion dollars worth of tunnels leading out of Gaza why don't the people imprisoned there leave? Likewise, if there are tunnels leading into Gaza why don't the Palestinians have necessities? And the question that makes the whole story ridiculous - why doesn't the fourth largest military in the world (per capita) armed with sophisticaed weapons destroy these "tunnels"? They certainly have the demolition equipment to destroy homes, schools, and hospitals. Finding and destroying a tunnel is a no-brainer, Tabatha.

What do you imagine? - that the Palestinians spent 1.2 billion to pay for special excavating equipment, only to find that there was no way to get it through the only two checkpoints in Gaza? Or that they dug tunnels by hand? - in which case it wouldn't have cost anything. Then there is the problem of the buffer zone that can be as wide as 1.5 km. So we have a deep, long tunnel and the Gazan peeks out to see if the coast is clear - sorry, but even the IDF likes a game of "whack a mole."

The story is phony on the face of it and it can only be explained as a justification for killing civilians.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are trying to explain away the tunnels with hypotheses. Do you think that Hamas who wanted to boot Israel out, is going to announce the existence of the tunnels to all and sundry? Of course they were going to keep them secret, before they attacked.

Listen to this interview -

http://www.msnbc.com/weekends-alex-wi...

Dewdly, you don't know what you are talking about, and you talk yourself into believing something you want to believe which is nothing close to the truth.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 7:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here is a National Geographic report on the tunnels, that may answer some of your questions. There are other reports by other publications, e.g. the Guardian, but you can find them.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/201...

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

* I wasn't meaning you random!

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 8:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken,

So they say. The U.S. paid Egypt's Mubarak 1.5 billion dollars each year for over thirty years to ensure that Egypt would stand down in Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. Reports of Egypt's destruction of Palestinian "tunnels" is a propaganda device used to isolate the Palestinians from their fellow Muslims and suggest that even Arabs in the Middle East refuse to support Hamas or any other Palestinian nationalist group. That "fact" is then used to delegitimize Hamas in the eyes of Israel's critics. Israel's critics are thereby equivocal, confused, and ultimately neutralized - and they don't have to pay you anything.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you're far too kind to troll dewdly, tabatha, when you write: "Dewdly, you don't know what you are talking about, and you talk yourself into believing something you want to believe which is nothing close to the truth."
Dewdly's a Holocaust denier who talks about "Israeli genocide" - let's ignore him/her and quit feeding the troll, he gets off on it.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The TROLL in the room is and has long been the Jewish whitewashing crew, operating from the highest to the lowest levels. The snow never stops falling. Sadly, the public consists largely of wind-fingered herd animals, who want to be seen as siding with the good guys, or whomever is defined as such by the powers that be. But "the truth will out," to borrow a phrase from (of all characters!) Launcelot Gobbo ( "I am Launcelot, the Jew's man." - Merchant of Venice, Shakespeare.) The peanut gallery is tiring of the charade.

Not surprising that Jewish tribalists in USA are denouncing Mr Netanyahu. The show must go on!

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

completely disagree with you, atomic state, sorry you're so jaundiced. Yes, I have been critical of AIPAC, and prefer J Street, yes there are many errors the ISRAELIs make, their leadership, but it far too easily falls into ye olde anti-Semitism. Have visited 4 death camps, done serious research, the Holocaust happened and it was terrible. Aren't you aware that Obama has chastised Netanayu often and in public? Come on, try to be even-handed.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 4, 2014 at 11:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan,

What good does it do for Obama to "chastise" Netanyahu in public when his administration makes the United States the only country in the world to vote "no" to a U.N. investigation of human rights violations in Gaza? And while Israel is shooting fish in a barrel Obama signs a bill to give Israel an additional 225 million for "Iron Dome".

One of the primary purposes of these outrages is to show Israel's American critics how impotent they are in the face of Israel's audacity. Impotent, feckless, stymied, buffaloed. No wonder you worry about anti-Semitism.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 3:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hate it when people post anonymously.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 5:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dewdly, in addition to knowing that the Holocaust is a hoax apparently also has information that the Arab World(as though there is any monolithic such thing) would be supporting a two state solution if not for the evil Jewish Lobby and the U.S.

Any other genocides that you have inside information about? I wish you could have told my Uncle, now deceased, that the camping trip he was on in Germany after having traveled in exclusive "cattle class" was really a dream; probably would have saved him a ton of anxiety and that pesky crooked leg that magically manifested itself during the same faux nightmare...

One little item to clarify Dewd-all Palestinians and Arabs are not Muslim. However, most Israelies and Palestinians are Semites

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 7:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As George Carlin says, "we like war."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDw-z...

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)


nomoresanity,

If you do a word search on this thread you will find that I haven't even used the word, "holocaust". The word is used every time to accuse me of "holocaust denial", or the belief that it is a "hoax: or a "dream".

The "two-state solution" is meant to be a "solution" for what, exactly? The dispossession and expulsion of 3/4 of a million Palestinians as a state was set up for Eastern European Jews? -Ashkenazi Jews who had no historical or genetic connection to Palestine?

Before a "solution" can be found, the problem has to be understood.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly, you've stated you believe the Holocaust was a hoax. Now you're upset to be called out on it just because you haven't directly used the word? SLIMY!

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken, dewdly never said the Holocaust was a hoax. As I said before, there really are no Holocaust deniers out there, at least none that I have ever seen. That is just a derogatory term used for those people who have different opinions about some specific events that happened during the Holocaust. Everybody knows that there were massive amounts of Jews that were rounded up, taken to prison camps and in some cases were murdered. However there is also evidence that many who died and were thought to have been murdered may have actually had diseases. No doubt those deaths are still attributable to Hitler and the Nazi regime, so it doesn't really change a whole lot about the fact that the entire thing was a huge atrocity and nobody argues these alternative viewpoints to defend Hitler - they defend those viewpoints because it points to the fact that there may have been some interested parties who wanted to make the Holocaust look worse than it actually was so that they could have an excuse to establish the state of Israel in Palestine. That's a totally valid theory and very likely true, either to a very small or possibly somewhat larger extent.

I think it is reasonable to hold the opinion that some of the "events" of the Holocaust that are known to many as fact may not be and could have come from rumors that were circulating among the prisoners who then "documented" these rumors as fact, or could have come from enemy Russian troops who were first to come upon many of the camps and wanted to make the Nazis look as bad as possible, etc.

That would make a person a revisionist, but not a denier or claiming that it was a hoax. I don't really hold any specific opinions on the subject, I've seen convincing evidence from both sides on some of the details. But I have no idea if they actually used their fat to make soap, how many who were incinerated may have died beforehand from disease, how many gas chambers there actually were and how many died in them, etc. But I don't see that it really makes any difference either way unless it can be proven that the motivations for making the exaggerations came from people who were attempting to form the state of Israel in Palestine.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, Ken, I never said any such thing. Perhaps you think any questions raised about any aspect of the "holocaust" equal denial? Why do you think the holocaust is brought up on a thread about the U.S. helping Hamas? And why do you think some posters are so quick to turn the discussion from criticism of Israel to protection of the holocaust?

Here is my explanation from another thread:

DrDan,
The "holocaust" is used to set Jews apart from the rest of humanity and make everything they do excusable. You can deplore what they are doing in Gaza this month but when another critic digs a little deeper you will close your eyes, stop your ears, and count to six million. Naive posters like nativeson don't realize that the Jews have given up the most preposterous tales of soap and fertilizer but you hang in there with the same mentality even though you know that a story that is protected by law is suspect on the face of it. The "holocaust" is treated as unique, sacrosanct, and a thing for which we must all atone - very much like its authors - unique, holy, and demanding obedience.

Why do you think Obama cannot say "no" to Israel and will not say "yes" to a U.N. fact-finding mission? Why does Obama give 225 million dollars to Israel while they are bombing civilians in a concentration camp? Didn't you vote for Obama because you thought he would stand up to the Likud and the Neo-cons?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

loonpt,

Well-stated. Common sense is in short supply among those trying to excuse Israel's actions in Gaza and those who think nothing was wrong until Netanyahu came along.

Having the holocaust hanging over one's head creates a kind of cognitive dissonance - suddenly one is unable to show how 1.2 billion dollars worth of tunnels could be built and function in a heavily guarded concentration camp. Irony becomes "theory" and DrDan comes to the rescue to chastise Tabatha for being "too kind" to a "Holocaust denier". It morphed from questioning the "tunnels" to "denying" the "holocaust"! That's how it works.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan, please try to be a little bit more even-handed.

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan, please try to be a little bit more even-handed. I've never denied "the" holocaust, and I do think that those who died of typhus, overwork, starvation, etc. were murdered, obviously. It's also true that a great many Jews "gilded the lily" as much as possible after the war, so that victimhood mitzvahs would redound to the tribe. So long, and thanks for the fiction.

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Although I can appreciate how knowing history can help us understand why this is happening, I think it would be advantageous to see the current crisis as an event distinct from the Holocaust.

The Palestinians are not the Germans.

If we try not to see the actors along ethnic lines, can we perhaps better analyze the forces that are at play?

Who is this Nit wit Yahu guy anyway?

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 5:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think psychologists call it "projecting."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jews speaking out against Old Testament politics in Israel/Palestine are golden, not quite the same color as jaundice. I hereby repent for being jaundiced, and resolve to be less so in the future.

And kudos to all the non-Jews who contacted their elected representatives against US involvement in Syria. Let "Quagmire" remain a character on Family Guy! Now, if we can get up the courage to demand disengagement from Israel.....

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 5, 2014 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank goodness I now know that "Jews gilded the lily..." after the holocaust.
And we have a heavy dose of rationalization about trying to deconstruct Israel because they are too manipulative, successful, self victimized, etc.
I admit that I am a strong supporter of Israel due to the complete lack of morals of the fringe nuts that are on the other side. I also wish the Palestinians would take responsibility for voting in a terrorist organization that uses their aide money to keep the average Palestinian in the cross hairs.
I also wish that the "two state" advocates would admit in equal amounts that the rest of the Arab World has not done jack to help with that effort. And btw, the accurate historical record shows that Arafat sold these folks down the river for his own gain for decades as well. Oh, his lack of ethics were also the fault of the Jews...

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 6, 2014 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nomoresanity,

Israel under the Likud is so "successful" that Netanyahu got 29 standing ovations from Congress in 2012 and that was after Operation Cast Lead that killed 1400 people, about 80% civilians in the Gaza concentration camp and after Israel's attack on the relief flotilla that was attempting to bring in humanitarian aid and construction materials. But its okay because all those killed had a "complete lack of morals".

The problem in discussing the conflict in the Middle East is that hardly anyone knows its history. The tendency is to pick it up in the mid-twentieth century, long after the major elements were set in motion and far away from its Talmudic roots in Russia.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 7, 2014 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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