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Attorney James Segall-Gutierrez announces the filing of a wrongful death claim in the police shooting of Brian Tacadena

Paul Wellman

Attorney James Segall-Gutierrez announces the filing of a wrongful death claim in the police shooting of Brian Tacadena


Tacadena Family Files $10 Million Wrongful Death Claim

Relatives Say Brian Tacadena Was Shot Multiple Times; Chief Sanchez Accused of “Cooking the Books”


Thursday, January 2, 2014
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A lawyer representing the 18-year-old daughter of Brian Tacadena filed a $10 million wrongful death claim against the City of Santa Barbara and its police department on Thursday morning. Brian Tacadena was shot and killed September 1 by a Santa Barbara police officer on De la Vina Street. The claim comes a few weeks after the District Attorney’s Office released a lengthy report that called the shooting a “justifiable homicide,” stating that Tacadena refused to comply with the officer’s orders while he was high on drugs and walking on the street with a large, military-style knife.

Attorney James Segall-Gutierrez, Tacadena’s family members, and representatives from PODER (People Organizing for the Defense and Equal Rights) held a press conference at City Hall Thursday to highlight supposed discrepancies in the DA’s report and to vocally oppose the gang injunction for its racial connotations.

Followed by a crowd of reporters and cameramen, Segall walked inside and submitted the claim — which includes allegations of failure to summon medical assistance, negligence, battery, and excessive force — to the clerk’s office around 10:30 a.m. City administrators have 45 days to respond to the claim, and Segall-Gutierrez said he will file in federal court if the city does not respond.

Attorney James Segall-Gutierrez
Click to enlarge photo

Paul Wellman

Attorney James Segall-Gutierrez

Segall-Gutierrez is based in Whittier — working on cases in San Francisco, Arizona, and Los Angeles — and handles wrongful-death and immigration-abuse cases. He recently settled a case in Los Angeles after an incident in 2010 where an armed 20-year-old man named Jonathan Cuevas was fatally shot multiple times by a Sheriff’s deputy, according to the Los Angeles Wave. The county agreed to pay $875,000 — the family sued for $5 million — to settle in September.

For the Tacadena case, Segall-Gutierrez called for a third party to investigate the incident. Though he did not address many of the report’s specific findings during the press conference, Segall-Guiterrez said the report stated Tacadena was hit by only one bullet — the DA’s Office said five total shots were fired — but claimed the family saw multiple gunshot wounds when they viewed Tacadena’s body.

PODER representative Gaby Hernandez speaks during Thursday's press conference
Click to enlarge photo

Paul Wellman

PODER representative Gaby Hernandez speaks during Thursday’s press conference

PODER representative and Santa Barbara native Gaby Hernandez told the crowd police-brutality issues in Santa Barbara stem back to the 1970s, and she called for higher scrutiny and accountability of police officers. She went on to explain the process of submitting a police complaint is not as easy and accessible as it should be.

“We’re not going to wait until 12 or 13 people are killed like in Anaheim or Orange County for us to react,” she said. “It could have been resolved a different way.” Hernandez claimed the police department was aware of Tacadena’s history of mental illness and should have approached the situation differently. Tacadena had been arrested at least two dozen times for various weapon- and drug-related felonies and spent time in prison and jail over the last few decades.

Hernandez also expressed frustration that the DA’s report claimed Tacadena was affiliated with the Nazi Low Riders, a white supremacist gang. The report stated Tacadena, who was of mixed race, had multiple gang tattoos on his body and drawings of swastikas on his boots, but said it was unclear if Tacadena was an active member of the organization. “Usually when you hear gang member, you right away disconnect; you don’t really care,” Hernandez said. “Nobody questions it.”

“These are humans. It dehumanizes people,” she went on. “We need to start caring and questioning. … How do they characterize someone as a gang member?”

Activist Martin Leyva speaks during the press conference announcing the Brian Tacadena wrongful death claim
Click to enlarge photo

Paul Wellman

Activist Martin Leyva speaks during the press conference announcing the Brian Tacadena wrongful death claim

Community activist Martin Leyva also criticized police officers for painting an unfair picture of suspects’ past as a justification for murder. “Humans are worth more than that. … The police department should use shooting as a last resort.”

Brandon Morse, president of Cop Watch (a new organization to hold officers accountable for their actions) and secretary of the Republican Liberty Caucus, said he was skeptical of the fact that the police officer’s dash-cam was not working at the time of the shooting. He said Tacadena’s death is a perfect example of why the proposed gang injunction is unjust. “A lot of information [in the report] was not relevant to the overall case,” Morse stated.

Brandon Morse, president of Cop Watch, at the Tacadena wrongful death press confernence
Click to enlarge photo

Paul Wellman

Brandon Morse, president of Cop Watch, at the Tacadena wrongful death press confernence

“[Police chief] Cam Sanchez has modified the numbers and cooked the books to over-inflate gang crime here in Santa Barbara,” Morse claimed, urging people to document any police incident they see — whether positive or negative — with their cell-phone cameras since “film recording does not lie.”

City administrators and police department officials said they do not comment on pending litigation. The group of Tacadena supporters plans to hold a march at the courthouse at 12:30 p.m. next Tuesday and speak during public comment at the City Council meeting.

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Comments

Independent Discussion Guidelines

Condolences to the Tacadena family, but your loved one wanted to die, and his actions led to this. He and he alone is responsible for this, and you deserve nothing from the City of Santa Barbara. You will lose this in court, mark my words!

SBLover35 (anonymous profile)
January 2, 2014 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What is this about?...racism?...human rights?...or whether or not the cops needed to shoot him?

According to previous articles, Tacadena was multiracial and self-identified with white supremicists, yet his defenders are trying to play the anti-Mexican immigrant race card.

The real issue here is whether or not the cops needed to shoot him, so let's stay on that point, and not digress into the race issue or the obvious fact that he was mentally ill and should have been committed to an institution long ago.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 2, 2014 at 8:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I completely agree with SBLover and am sad that they are trying to sue for something like this, it will only cost the city money and that's my taxes. I'm glad he didn't have a chance to hurt anyone else

santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
January 2, 2014 at 8:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shame on his family for going after $10 million. Would he of earned that much in his life time? Will that replace him? I'm sorry that a human life was lost, that is always a sad ending in this kind of situation. However, for once I would like to hear parents and families take responsibility for there offspring instead of excusing there drug issues by masquerading them behind mental illness. Drug abuse can cause mental illness. If he did in fact suffer from this all his life where was his family then to guide him on the right path?

tiffany33reyes (anonymous profile)
January 2, 2014 at 8:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do not settle! Not one penny to this shyster lawyer that took this case.

Botany (anonymous profile)
January 2, 2014 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Suicide by cop has become so common in Santa Barbara that its high time one of our local news organization did an investigative report on the SBPD and ask the tough questions. Exacatly how many citizens have been shot to death by police in the past few years? When did the shoot to kill policy become the norm? It seems we have far too many such shootings for our modest population. How does our suicide by cop problem compare with other cities and what is it on a per capita basis in comparison to LA and truely dangerous areas?

emptynewsroom (anonymous profile)
January 2, 2014 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What needs to come to light is why Tacadena was out is the general population. Clearly he was antisocial, and whether his case was a criminal, or medical one, is something I don't know, but had he been in a controlled setting the shooting would not have happened.

The family should explain why he kept getting through the system.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 1:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All I know is what has been said and that's not enough for me to form a conclusive opinion.

Law enforcement can be tough work. It's not for everyone because little mistakes costs lives.

ahem (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Amateur hour litigation. Good luck, losers!

rukidding (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 6:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ambulance chasing lawyers and down and out families make wicked combinations. I agree with Bill on this one. I hope the city fights this to the end. Don't give these wide eyed lawyers who see deep pockets and file these frivolous lawsuits anything.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Or maybe this really was not a justified shooting. Ever seen our DA issue an UNjustified opinion? You've seen the data on Officer Involved Shootings in SB vs NYC - if not its REAL easy to find. Maybe a big lawsuit is what it will take to clean up SBPD.

An INDEPENDENT (not to be confused with the Indy) investigation, by parties not beholden to the City, the SBPD, or Tacadena, published for all to see, would be a good move. There are facts to be had - much more interesting than opinions.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

According to witness No. 5, the cop said “Stop or I will shoot. Drop your knife,” and then Tacadena said, “Yeah, I know you will.” He went out controlling the cops, and now his family wants in on the action.

Adonis_Tate (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

be a career thug, drug addict and violent felon. finally reach a point where your meth riddled brain decides its time to check out.

come home, fill your head one more time with enough meth to fell an elephant, then hit the adios button via suicide by cop.

and now the family will look for a unexpected generous payday due to the previously ignored forgotten family member who is now unfortunately dead.

and lets not forget poder who were slick enough to tie their anti-gang injunction wagon to this. with a settlement, which is all nuisance suits want, there will be lots of new things to buy ( maybe new rims for the poder wagon) and plenty of meth for everybody.

rinse, repeat, and the beat goes on in gangland.

lawdy (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The city council will give direction to the city attorney how best to proceed with this case.

How do you think each of them will vote?

1.Cathy Murillo
2. Bendy White
3. Gregg Hart
4. Helene Schneider
5. Dale Francisco
6. Frank Hotchkiss
7. Randy Rowse

Majority rules.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wrongful death?

Only within the (1) emotionally charged minds of suffering family members who did not see or have a good relationship with this man for years or (2) in the minds of family and attorney looking to settle with the city and make a profit off the death of this mans tragic (by his repeated choice) life.

Justice for All victims of Police Brutality?
If you think shooting and killing a fast approaching, nearby, dangerously behaving person after repeatedly and clearly warning him to stop/get down/drop his weapon and not knowing if he also had a gun is police brutality, then you would likely prefer:

1. To live in a state of complete anarchy where police and the order of law are banned, allowing people like Mr. Tacedena to run wild so that they are not "brutalized" by police and others that want to live in a civilized society.

2. To move to a non-lethal approach, which is fine, but you have to CHANGE THE LAW by VOTING for it or for people who will do that for you and then piloting your pipe dream of non-lethal force on real police officers to measure how many get killed using non-lethal force. Good luck with that.

sigh...

realitycheck88 (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 9:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope this leads to further investigation, I think it is worth somebody outside of the LEO backed organizations to get to the bottom of what happened. Maybe they can test his blood sample and verify that he had "10x the amount of meth in their system as the 'average' meth user". Cops tend to lie and they tend to have people help cover up for them and who knows what the real truth is.

I also agree that just because he was in a gang in prison doesn't mean he was in a gang outside of prison. I believe his character may have been portrayed with great exaggeration, but we will see perhaps.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SBLover35: "Condolences to the Tacadena family, but your loved one wanted to die, and his actions led to this. He and he alone is responsible for this, and you deserve nothing from the City of Santa Barbara. You will lose this in court, mark my words!"

billclausen: "According to previous articles, Tacadena was multiracial and self-identified with white supremicists, yet his defenders are trying to play the anti-Mexican immigrant race card."

santabarbarasand: "I completely agree with SBLover and am sad that they are trying to sue for something like this, it will only cost the city money and that's my taxes. I'm glad he didn't have a chance to hurt anyone else"

tiffany33reyes: "Shame on his family for going after $10 million. Would he of earned that much in his life time? Will that replace him? I'm sorry that a human life was lost, that is always a sad ending in this kind of situation. However, for once I would like to hear parents and families take responsibility for there offspring instead of excusing there drug issues by masquerading them behind mental illness."

Botany: "Do not settle! Not one penny to this shyster lawyer that took this case."

rukidding: "Amateur hour litigation. Good luck, losers!"

deniseL: "Ambulance chasing lawyers and down and out families make wicked combinations."

Adonis_Tate: "According to witness No. 5, the cop said “Stop or I will shoot. Drop your knife,” and then Tacadena said, “Yeah, I know you will.” He went out controlling the cops, and now his family wants in on the action."

lawdy: "Be a career thug, drug addict and violent felon. finally reach a point where your meth riddled brain decides its time to check out. Come home, fill your head one more time with enough meth to fell an elephant, then hit the adios button via suicide by cop.
And now the family will look for a unexpected generous payday due to the previously ignored forgotten family member who is now unfortunately dead. And lets not forget poder who were slick enough to tie their anti-gang injunction wagon to this. with a settlement, which is all nuisance suits want, there will be lots of new things to buy ( maybe new rims for the poder wagon) and plenty of meth for everybody."

realitycheck88: "Wrongful death? Only within the (1) emotionally charged minds of suffering family members who did not see or have a good relationship with this man for years or (2) in the minds of family and attorney looking to settle with the city and make a profit off the death of this mans tragic (by his repeated choice) life."

Why thank you all, made for less typing by moi. Nice to see there are those that absolutely get it!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JohnLocke: "Or maybe this really was not a justified shooting. Ever seen our DA issue an UNjustified opinion?"

loonpt: "I hope this leads to further investigation, I think it is worth somebody outside of the LEO backed organizations to get to the bottom of what happened. Maybe they can test his blood sample and verify that he had "10x the amount of meth in their system as the 'average' meth user". Cops tend to lie and they tend to have people help cover up for them and who knows what the real truth is."

And apparently those that clearly DON'T!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To all those who are ready to believe whatever the police tell them without any doubt that there might be another story: I recommend the film LA Confidential.

Why would anyone object to an independent investigation, esp with all the questionable DUI arrests, beatings, and Officer Involved Shootings? We already know from the Kasi Beutel case that the Mayor's promise of an independent investigation was an empty one, so a local investigation is clearly not gonna happen. Feds anyone? State attorney office maybe? Or perhaps enough big lawsuits to shame the Council into action.

blahblah what does your comment mean?

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

loonpt >>

people lie, not just cops.

that's why the *coroner* examined this guy and did the test and ruled on the cause of death, etc.

people lie, not just cops.

that's why the DA collected reviewed all the facts

people lie, not just cops.

that's why witnesses - many - were interviewed and *many* said the same thing about this criminal: he was high and wanted to be hostile and basically do suicide by cop

people lie, not just cops

which is why cops have training and rules to follow when using lethal force, *which this cop followed* completely according to: witnesses, the coroner, other cops, the DA, etc.

so clearly *another* investigation is warranted.

realitycheck88 (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yep, training our cops to shoot to kill instead of shoot to disarm is just a great rule to follow. And the family said multiple wounds, while the cops said one. You prepared to believe only the cops? Or the in-the-cops-pocket DA?

Don't make any sudden moves around a local LEO, realitycheck88, you may find your blind beliefs harmful to your health.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Right blahblah, I'm just crazy, the police would never lie and cover anything up.

Actually in Dallas they have helped to codify police coverups! All because of an eerily similar situation to what we have here..

PROBLEM: Police unjustifiably shoot mentally ill man with knife and then lie in their report that he walked towards him without realizing the shooting was captured on video and no such thing happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZcww...

SOLUTION: Police quietly change policy to allow more time for CYA, cover-up, and "getting their stories straight"

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com...

"Dallas PD changes policy to enable police coverups after shootings

..a police officer shot a mentally ill suspect, claiming he feared for his life. His partner said in a written report that the man had rushed at them with a raised knife when, in fact, a neighbor's surveillance video showed the fellow had first backed away then stood calmly with his hands to his side. DPD fired the officer and suspended his partner for 15 days.

Now, though, rather than beef up penalties for officers caught testilying, Dallas Police Chief David Brown has succumbed to pressure from the police union and changed the rules so that officers can no longer be questioned about shooting incidents until 72 hours after they happen. The Dallas News story ("Dallas Police Chief David Brown quietly changes shooting investigation policy," Nov. 27) announcing the new policy opened thusly:

Any Dallas officer involved in a police shooting — whether the officer fired a weapon or witnessed the gunfire — will now have the right to remain silent for 72 hours under a new department policy.

And even before they give a statement about the shooting, the officers can watch any available video before they give a statement."

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And of course, statistics on shootings OF police officers have nothing to do with prohibition of alcohol or drugs... nothing..

See this graphic?

http://i.imgur.com/6WmMJ7I.png

See? There is absolutely zero correlation.. I guess blahblah has been right all along..

/s

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tell that to the police in Mexico.

Botany (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Soooooooo, …. how do you think the city council will advise the city attorney to proceed with this case?

1.Cathy Murillo
2. Bendy White
3. Gregg Hart
4. Helene Schneider
5. Dale Francisco
6. Frank Hotchkiss
7. Randy Rowse

Majority rules.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hah, I was being very sarcastic botany..

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loon, did you ever stop to think that the majority of those links you post are put together by people with YOUR same agenda?
Did you ever stop to think that the majority of those links you post made by people with the same agenda as you may be skewed?
Loon, did you ever stop to think that the majority of those links you post made by people with you same agenda and bias might not apply to real life?
Nope, guess not. Checked them out (every time), pseudo-intellect babble by people who will "doctor" things up to blame everyone else but themselves.
But hey, thanks for the many laughs & giggles you and the makers of those links provide!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

see,loon, Botany is so tightly wound up in his one-dimensional screed that he never senses sarcasm, it's all so bleak.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Seven final words from me on this topic:

INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION

CITIZENS OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE WITH SUBPOENA POWER

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's not me with the anger management issues Dan.

Botany (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The bottom line for me remains that if you walk toward a police officer while holding a knife and ignoring that officer's commands to stop and drop the knife then you are asking to get shot.

LegendaryYeti (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, Legendary, that is most certainly true. But the bottom line for me remains whether that is an accurate reflection of the facts.

Remember the DeNunzio case? There were people videoing the incident whose cameras were confiscated by SBPD. And the alleged beating was conveniently out of sight of the police car's camera. But Denunzio was found to have done nothing wrong by the SBPD. Hmmmm.

Or how about Beutel prefilling DUI reports, wriggling out of a proper court testimony where expert testimony indicated that she forged a signature on Trombetta waivers, then getting promoted. Hmmmmm.

Then there are all the stats from other cities (just Google 'police involved shooting statistics') that indicate that SB county's rate of Officer Involved Shootings is quite high on a per population basis.

Lot's of stupid people here threatening the cops? Or a really high crime rate (not according to SPBD Chief Sanchez or Sheriff Bill Brown)? Or a cowboy mentality among the LEOs? See my post 3 up from here.

Just as war is too important to be left to the generals, proper law enforcement is too important to be left to the LEOs and their government bureaucrat buddies (got that Joyce?)

See my post 3 up from here.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It pays to get shot by the police, the trick is not to die.

AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Johnlocke didn't the Independent itself quote witnesses who heard the officer shouting at him to stop and one who saw him continuing to advance right after the shooting.

pointssouth (anonymous profile)
January 3, 2014 at 11:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

John you keep on with your rant about a high officer involved shootings here when I proved you wrong! Repeating false fact over and over doesn't make it true.

Get over yourself you were wrong on that and didnt prove anything as i clearly showed you on past comments. Yet you champion that mid-information and say people can Google it.

Obviously you hate cops and ignore the eye witness statement and the video from across the street that shows this mentally disturbed drug addict came at the cop with a knife. Think about the poor cop and his family that have to read these rants by people like you. He did nothing wrong but an Internet cowboy who has no training and no fear of spewing off about mis information does to them. You need to chill out and realize you are not getting any support from anyone else except your cop hating buddy loony.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes , the indy quoted one witness of five who said that.

deniseL, you certainly did not prove anything. Do your research. I quoted articles for you - read them.

I am a strong supporter of law and order but not of rogue cops. I do not hate cops but I do greatly distrust government, esp when we have so many indications of possible coverups.

Quite a few posters herein have questioned the official story, including citizens living here much longer than I claiming corruption in the local police going back to the 70's.

And if you don't support an independent investigation, then you are clearly partisan and not interested in facts.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How easy to automatically demand spending other people's money, JL. Just because.

Find the funding yourself and set up your own "independent" cop tribunal. Show us your budget for this, please. Otherwise, change internal processes within the system by available means. Rants from the outside don't count.

To simply declare everything you don't like requires additional funding to meet your own level of personal satisfaction on your terms is not something we can or should afford. Suck it up.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JohnLock wrote: "I do greatly distrust government, esp when we have so many indications of possible coverups.

Quite a few posters herein have questioned the official story, including citizens living here much longer than I claiming corruption in the local police going back to the 70's."

Hang some facts on these statements you made here, Locke:

1. so many indications of possible cover-ups
2. local police corruption going back to the 1970s'
3. quite a few posters have questioned the official story

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 9:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you read the comments and follow the news, there's really no need for John Locke to post a research paper here.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Foofighter, I've posted many indications of recent coverups over the past two years, as have many others. The allegations of local corruption going back to the 70's are from other posters as I indicated so I can't substantiate them. And, as K_V said, if you read the comments and follow the news you'll see that the official story is often questioned.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A story is only critical when you back it up readily with corroborated facts; otherwise it is just slur by anecdote.

Sorry you don't care enough to make your accusations stick with the county Grand Jury. They are interested in what you have to say and your reams of "research".

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In my opinion JohnLocke doesn't just distrust government, JohnLocke also distrusts most cops. But in the end JohnLocke is only expressing his/her opinions here, which is what JohnLocke and all of us are entitled to do.

I don't think everything is a hexagonal conspiracy and I don't think there's a need for an independent investigation of the local cops, but if someone thinks there's a need for it and really wants it, by all means they should feel free to continue to clamor for it. Perhaps as a start the county Grand Jury might be a good place for JohnLocke to take his/her concerns.

LegendaryYeti (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No person, organization or institution is infallible. To cast a critical eye can be the utmost loyalty.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To send those concerns to the Grand Jury is an act of utmost courage.

JL make strong accusations that concern us all. He needs to take his research and put it into the hands of the independent body designated to deal with these concerns.

He should not feel helpless and only spew his accusations here. Send them on to the Grand Jury - they are located in the court house and I believe you can even file complaints online.

If law enforcement personnel are as corrupt as he states they are, we are all concerned. He claims he has facts to back this up. That is exactly why there is a confidential grand jury. What is our government doing to us that they should not be doing.

They need to hear from you, JL. These are a group of your citizen peers, convened and appointed just to follow up on these specific concerns.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@foofighter. I actually was considering serving on the grand jury several years ago until I researched their history here. Their recommendations are routinely ignored. I think an effective investigation must come from out of the county, perhaps state attorney general or some federal body. Much too incestuous locally.

I don't distrust most cops; in fact there is a wonderful story in this week's Indy about one who works very successfully with the homeless. But every time a I see a cop parked in a red zone or blocking a driving lane without his service lights on (i.e. not on official business) I think 'now there is someone who is more concerned about the presumed privilege the badge gives him than about setting a proper example of obeying the law'.

Given the number of examples of questionable police and sheriff behavior that has been reported over the past year or so in our various local media, I don't automatically think that the cops are the good guys, although I do hope that most of them are. And I think the number of incidents is more than enough to justify an independent investigation. And yes, in this case I advocate for spending the peoples' money on a real and objective investigation - the issue is OUR public safety.

I distrust the cops' management (particularly Sanchez), the City Attorney, the DA, and the Council to properly investigate wrongdoing that may cost them all their jobs and reputations. Their motivations to weasel and lie are obvious.

Some wise man once said "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance". I think it clearly applies here.

Far from feeling helpless, I have written, under my own name to Sanchez, the Mayor, the City, the DA, and the Council expressing my concerns, several times. Care to guess how many responses I received?

Next round of communications goes to the State.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JL: Explain how you will construct this "independent" investigation to meet your own satisfaction for integrity and reliability.

Personnel hired, powers granted, and budget funded. What will be the authority for their findings and their investigative processes? Who oversees these independent investigators. Will it have an appeal process? Will there be limits as to scope of investigation. Do the parties investigated retain any rights?

You seriously want one. I seriously want to know how you will get one.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 9:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JohnLocke, your comment, "Yep, training our cops to shoot to kill instead of shoot to disarm is just a great rule to follow," clearly indicates you have no understanding of the application of deadly force. There is no such thing as "shoot to disarm" in the real world.

Not to sound cold hearted - obviously this person had problems - but the real victims here are 1) the officer that was placed in this horrible situation and now has to carry this traumatic burden the rest of his life, and 2) the taxpayers, who now have to carry an unnecessary financial burden, regardless of how this concludes.

Sothep (anonymous profile)
January 4, 2014 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obviously, we have very different views of the responsibility of LEOs and claiming that 'you have no understanding', etc. is not conducive to rational debate.

The idea of an independent investigation is not a new one. It requires investigators with no connection to the local bodies involved in the suspected bad behavior but with understanding of the realities of law enforcement and of civil liberties and public safety. The investigation should be paid from the budgets of those being investigated. All of which is irrelevant if no investigation is to happen.

Either one believes, as I do, that our public "servants" should be subject to regular, intense, public scrutiny, or one believes whatever they are told by those public "servants" while assuming they are of such high moral and ethical caliber that their word is unassailable. Giving the obvious lying that goes on at all levels of government, I prefer accountability.

Now, foofighter, explain how you come to believe without reservation the tales told by the LEOs and the local gov.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JL:

if the Grand Jury does not meet your "independent investigation" criteria, how do you propose to stop wasting money on the current Grand Jury system. How will your own version be any different?

Please set out a budget for your version of an independent investigative body. Seriously. How many people at what hourly rate for how long with what degree of operating budget and back-up resources? Ball park figures are okay it they have some reality to them.

How do you see the investigation scenario to work in this present case? What steps do you see being undertaken by these people new to the entire process and situation.

When should any incident become subject to an additional independent investigation when the normal processes have swung into action. Before, during or after the regular in-house investigation takes place?

Do you wait for the results or do you start it immediately regardless and how do you over-lap concurrent in-house and independent investigations.

NB: I can live with our current system and encourage both the citizen Grand Jury and the Fourth Estate to continue playing their independent roles as well. And citizen watchdogs like you who raise alarms worthy of consideration, when backed by facts.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tell you what, foofighter. You answer my question, then I'll answer yours.

Otherwise, the conversation is over.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

there is ever a 'conversation' with the foo??!

DrDan (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at noon (Suggest removal)

JL, it's not an issue of "the responsibility of LEOs", it's that you're faulting the SBPD for not using a tactic that violates standard doctrine of armed agencies world-wide, be they law enforcement or military. The responsibility of LEOs is to protect the public, and hopefully protect themselves in the process. The evidence cited states this officer fulfilled his responsibility on both counts, and for that I am grateful.

As far as not being "conducive to rational debate," that wasn't ad hominem; I was telling you that your argument is flawed and ill-informed.

Sothep (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sothep: what's your source for "standard doctrine of armed agencies worldwide"? Which BTW does nothing regarding my concerns about local corruption. In your world are there only 'righteous shoots"?

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JL, if you have such concerns in re local corruption as you state you have, then why don't you take them somewhere beyond the boundaries of these comment boards, as some have suggested?

I might also suggest that you go on a ride-along with any law enforcement agency. You might come away with a different perspective of the profession, and have a better idea of why cops do what they do. Just an idea.

LegendaryYeti (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hitler. Hitler HitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitlerHitler. There, because of Godwin's Law, this thread is officially over.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
January 5, 2014 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JohnLocke I have posted this before to educate you. I guess you didn't look at it. But since you asked here is the answer to your question above. Feel free to enlighten yourself on a bad assumption you had.

http://www.forcescience.org/fsinews/2...

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 2:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Race Card for $$$$$, same old, Same old...

dou4now (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 5:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

deniseL, I Iooked at the link and understand it's intent quite well. it does nothing to dispel compelling statistical evidence.

Yeti, as I already posted, I have written all relevant city officials, received zero response (not even acknowledgement of receipt), and am preparing to write to relevant state officials. Might wanna read b4 commenting.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dou4now: "The Race Card for $$$$$, same old, Same old..."

FINALLY SOMEBODY GETS IT! WINNER IS DOU4NOW!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"For Police, Murder is a Time-Saving Device

William Norman Grigg

“We don’t have time for this!” exclaimed a police officer as he shot and killed a psychologically troubled, 90-pound teenage boy who had already been tasered and was pinned down beneath two other officers. The victim, 18-year-old Keith Vidal, was “armed” with a screwdriver at the time of his death.

Vidal’s father, Mark Wilsey, had called the police for help when the boy suffered what was described as a psychotic episode on the afternoon of January 5. When the police arrived at the family’s home in Boiling Spring Lakes, North Carolina, they rendered the kind of “help” for which they have become so notorious – repeatedly tasering the troubled young man until one of them simply shot him as a time-saving measure.

“There was no reason to shoot this kid,” Wilsey told the local NBC affiliate. “We called for help and they killed my son.” During a press conference today (January 6), Wilsey recalled that he was helping the police try to calm down his son when one of the officers fired the fatal gunshot. In addition to killing Vidal, the officer imperiled the lives of several other people – including two of his comrades at risk. He later pointed his gun at Wilsey when the father reacted with predictable pain and outrage over the murder of his son.

There was “no reason” for deadly force, Wilsey points out. “They had Tasers on them, and they didn’t have to even tase him, they could have just talked to him, talked to him another ten minutes.”

Mother of the victim

Speaking during the press conference, Vidal’s mother urged parents of emotionally troubled children not to place the lives of their loved ones at risk by inviting the intervention of armed strangers clothed in the supposed authority to kill: “Do not call the police department for help – because your son will probably be killed, like mine was.”

This is not the first documented instance in which a police officer has murdered somebody simply because he was in a hurry. During a 2009 incident in a restaurant parking lot, Everett, Washington Police Officer Troy Meade shot and killed Niles Meservey, an intoxicated man whose Corvette had been boxed in by three cars and a chain-link fence."

More:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the big "take-away" from the article I posted above can be summarized here:

"Speaking during the press conference, Vidal’s mother urged parents of emotionally troubled children not to place the lives of their loved ones at risk by inviting the intervention of armed strangers clothed in the supposed authority to kill: “Do not call the police department for help – because your son will probably be killed, like mine was.”"

My advice is to NEVER call the police. If you are in such a dangerous situation where you really do require the police, then they certainly won't be able to get to you in time. Everybody should have their own defensive measures in place and should not ever depend on the police for help.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loon North Carolina is a couple of thousand miles away. Please state how any information you posted about this story is about the shooting in Santa Barbara. Are you saying that Santa Barbara PD is responsible for the shooting in NC? Wow, maybe SBPD should be on the hook for Guantanamo too and problems in the middle east. I say we blame them for everything. I once heard a cop in NYPD (jl favorite cite source without any real info) jaywalked. Bet SBPD is to blame for that one too.

JohnLocke, did you really read the info? Doubt it. Otherwise you would stop your rant about shooting to kill and shooting things out of people's hands.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Where’s the Body Count from Shootings by the Police?
by JAMES BOVARD

President Barack Obama, calling for new gun control legislation earlier this year, appealed to “all the Americans who are counting on us to keep them safe from harm.” He also declared, “If there is even one life we can save, we’ve got an obligation to try.” But some perils are not worth registering on Obama’s scorecard.

While the president frequently declaims on the dangers of privately-owned guns, his administration is scorning a mandate to track how many Americans are shot and killed each year by government agents. The same 1994 law that temporarily banned the sale of assault weapons also required the federal government to compile data on police shootings nationwide. However, neither the Justice Department nor most local police departments have bothered to tally such occurrences.

Instead, the Justice Department relied on the National Crime Survey of citizens to gauge the police use of force. But as Prof. James Fyfe, one of the nation’s foremost experts on police shootings, observed in 2001, that survey relies on “questions about how often the respondents have been subjected to police use of force. Since dead people can’t participate in such a survey, this work tells us nothing about how often police kill.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/1...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Whack ‘Em and Stack ‘Em Mentality of American Cops
by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR and ALEXANDER COCKBURN

Police work continues to be a relatively safe occupation. In the 1970s, an average of 220 officers died each year. In the 1980s, 185 officers were killed on average, with the average number dropping to 155 in the 1990s. The number of police deaths continues to decline, year by year. According to the publication Officer Down, there were only 95 “duty related” officer deaths in 2013. Forty-two of these fatalities were vehicle related. Another 14 deaths resulted from heart attacks while on the clock. Only 27 cops died from gunfire last year and several of those were shot by other cops.

Craig Floyd, chairman of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, contends that “law enforcement remains the most dangerous occupation in America today, and those who serve and make the ultimate sacrifice are true portraits in courage.”

This is nonsense. Compared to the daily perils of being a retail clerk in a 7-Eleven or toiling on a construction site, let alone working on a trawler in the Gulf of Alaska, logging in the Pacific Northwest or working in a deep mine, policing is a fairly invulnerable trade.

But as vividly recounted by James Bovard in a piece for CounterPunch this week, it has probably never been riskier to be pulled over by a cop on one of America’s roads. Bovard writes:

“Killings by police are not a negligible proportion of the nation’s firearms death toll. Shootings by police accounted for almost 10 percent of the homicides in Los Angeles County in 2010, according to the Los Angeles Times.

“Jim Fisher, a former FBI agent and criminal law professor, compiled a database of police shootings and estimated that in the United States in 2011 police shot more than 1,100 people, killing 607.”

The public apprehension that cops are often borderline psychotic, hair-trigger-ready to open fire on the slightest pretext, virtually immune from serious sanction, is growing apace,

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/1...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

deniseL your lack of logic and understanding is absolutely breathtaking. I read the article; I was not convinced.

The statistics are compelling. Google 'officer involved shooting statistics' for NYC, LA, Philly, Houston, and you will see that on a PER CAPITA basis Santa Barbara county LEOs outshoot them all. It's not about one cop's poor self and family having to live with it; it's about whether the shoot was necessary at all. And BTW, what about the family of the VICTIM? Any sympathy for them? Or do you consider they "deserve" the sorrow.

The level of officer-involved shooting is growing nationwide and should be of major concern to all citizens interested in the evenhanded rule of law and DUE PROCESS. Sure, if someone is pointing a gun at a cop, the cop should defend himself, but very few of the locally reported cases appear to be so cut and dried. Why do you assume that the LEO is always right?

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@dolphinpod14: you haven't contributed a thing to this discussion and certainly don't get to declare it "over".

And where is foofighter's answer to my question?

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

John you first said NYPD vs SBPD when i proved you wrong you had to include all of SBcounty and i still proved you wrong. Your ad homeniem attacks on me are just that,because you are unable to debate real facts.

Back up your statements with facts like I have disproved yours before, otherwise they are just your opinion. Case closed JL.

Start with the level of officer invovled shootings is growing, state number and cite source. I bet you wont and cant. You will retort Google it yourself. Here is a clue JL i have and you are wrong. But theahain what does statstics have to do witht this shooting of a mentally deranged man armed with a knife?

Please answer the questions, you are good at avoiding them.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

deniseL, you must have not read my article above titled: "Where’s the Body Count from Shootings by the Police?"

It explains precisely why those statistics don't exist, even though they are supposed to exist according to federal law. Where is he supposed to get these statistics from?

But that is all still irrelevant.

The reason statistics exist, such as number of people shot by police each year, is because not everybody reads the paper every single day and has a photographic timestamped memory that is able to aggregate the number of people shot in a specific time frame. We write down a number so that it can reference it later without going through the newspaper or the police database searching for this information.

JohnLocke showed that on a per capita basis, if you were to compare it to NYC, that Santa Barbara COUNTY would only have about 1 or 2 people shot by police each year. The reason JohnLocke has not provided any official 'statistics' is because we had two shootings in the first week of December with several more throughout the year. In other words, most people can remember more police shootings off the top of their head than is necessary to prove him correct. Why does he need to provide statistics when we can all recall the events off the top of our head?

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"For Police, Murder is a Time-Saving Device"
by William Norman Grigg
OPINION!

"Where’s the Body Count from Shootings by the Police?"
by James Brovard
OPINION!

"The Whack ‘Em and Stack ‘Em Mentality of American Cops"
by Jeffery St. Clair and Alexander Cockburn
OPINION!

Hey little buddy, when you criticize somebody's point of view such as you did w/ deniseL (loonpt: "deniseL your lack of logic and understanding is absolutely breathtaking.") please don't do it with mere OPINION pieces.
Like all your links, skewed, biased, agenda driven drivel. Get off the wannabe moralist high horse and experience the real world. DeniseL already beat you to it.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm glad you're writing to State officials, JL, since the local officials that you don't trust haven't responded. Please let us know what the State officials you've written to have to say in response.

Perhaps there is an epidemic of police misconduct and unnecessary police shootings in SB County. I don't think so, but writing to State officials about it is better than just bitching on comment boards.

JL, your writings suggest to me that you really don't know that much about the LE profession. My previous suggestion still stands - if you can put your distrust aside sufficiently, then I suggest that you go on a ride-along with any law enforcement agency of your choosing. You might come away with a different perspective of the profession, and have a much clearer and better idea of why cops do what they do. I mean this.

LegendaryYeti (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 5:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hey you know, JL, when foo gets cornered he simply drops off this thread and leapfrogs to another saying exactly the same thing

DrDan (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 6:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

See Jan 5 @ 10:06 am - day and half ago. You must have missed it.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 7:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@dolphinpod14: you haven't contributed a thing to this discussion and certainly don't get to declare it "over". -John Locke-

That really hurt my feelings. You are a cruel man and I don like it. Now I am a sad boy sitting here crying.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 7:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Get off your seahorse Locke.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey blahblah, you might want to do a ctrl+f on "breathtaking".

Thanks for your time.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 10:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is everybody here defending deniseL when a fourth grader can easily show that JL's math is reasonably correct? Does everybody not see that the statistics have such a large discrepancy that it doesn't matter whether you are looking at SB City or SB County? Hell, I'm pretty sure you could throw Ventura County in there too and the numbers still wouldn't look good.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 6, 2014 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

When people change their statements to suit their opinion when we debate it makes it obvious that they where just spewing opinion in the first place. People tend to get frustrate with made up points masquerading as fact.

That is why the majority of posts are, as you put it, "defending" me. JL cited an NYPD number in 2011. I responded that SBPD had no shootings in 2011 and disproved his point. A statistical analysis of something like this, police shootings, is only relevent, as looked at from a wide amount of data. You would also need to take other factors into account to. As you know loon statistics can be skewed. Are we comparing apples to apples here? Does the fact that New York has less guns per capita then California effect the numbers? If SB only killed one person a year but each one of those shooing were not justifiable be ok with you I statistically the number was lower per capita? Shouldn't the numbers not matter as much as each individual case be looked at for its own merit? Like this case. There was mental I'll knife welding guy that witnesses saw go towards the cop. JP assumed that they should shoot the gun out of his hand. This is flawed logic and shows a misunderstanding of how the real world operates.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 2:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think, loonpt, because the defenders are married to the idea that we live in a little paradise, where the women are strong, the men are pretty, and all the children (and LEOs) above average. deniseL is obviously not able to differentiate between the facts of a single case and much broader trends, therefore my comment a ways back about about forest and trees. 'nuff said. Thanks for your support, but clearly statistical data doesn't matter to a true believer.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JL, if take your class envy out of your arguments and you might have something more of substance to offer.

Hint: Montecito and Hope Ranch are not part of Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara is a gritty, low income working class town. SB needs a very proactive police force to keep a lid on the low-life that clusters within its midst.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Got to give you credit, foofighter. I've tangled with Mr. JL a few times around here, and his and your little tête-à-tête is probably the first time I've ever rooted for JohnLocke. You're building bridges, man....

@foofighter: "Santa Barbara is a gritty, low income working class town."

Please. You want gritty and working class? Try Oakland. Try Stockton. Try Chula Vista. Hell, leave the state and try East St. Louis or Kansas City. Take a trip to Birmingham or Baltimore.

If you consider Santa Barbara a 'gritty and low income' town, then you have an over-inflated sense of privilege and entitlement. Frankly, Santa Barbara could use a little more 'reality' to knock some of you self-entitled drips off of your high horses.

EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Aw yes the keyboard lunatics of SB are wildly commenting on things they have NO knowledge of or training in. THEY cite articles/books/magazines, movies and there self educated opinions on why there have been LE shootings in poor little lo SB.. Maybe there have been shootings because idiots roam the streets of SB, or maybe because lunatics want to engage LE with weapons thinking they are invincible, or maybe they think like most of the idiots posting here that cops have to be assaulted first before protecting themselves. Always love reading posts from absolute Neanderthals trying to convince modern day Americans that they know best.

Please, all you self described experts might want to attend one of the citizen police academies in the county. I'm sure they might want to use some of your expertise in dealing with the daily scum. Hell, who knows, you might even save the taxpayers money from future litigation when you teach the experts how to do their job…

Oh wait, now I'm making to much sense. The posters on this tread will never submit themselves to this kind of forward thinking. They would rather hide behind a keyboard and fire shots then criticize LE who are actually working the streets 24/7 putting their lives on the line for the same idiot who sits behind a computer and berates them..

If they gave out medals for stupidity many of the posters on this thread would have a back injury from the weight placed on their chests.

Can't wait to read the attacks coming my way from the brave…..

Priceless (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Locke's "class envy"? SB is "gritty" and working class"? After reading that post I shall think nothing of falling down stairs.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Loon, nobody's defending deniseL, but rather criticizing your arrogant "I know more than all of you because I posted a useless, biased, skewed link" nonsense.

What's the US population? Checked today, it was 317,331,752 and climbing, so for the sake of simplicity, lets say 317,000,000.

How many cops are there in the US? From from 2004 to 2008, the number of full-time sworn personnel per 100,000 U.S. residents increased from 250 to 251 when the US population was 303,000,000 on average, so roughly right now it MIGHT now be 262 as per population increase.

How many people were MURDERED (not accidentally killed) in the US recently? Using an average from 2006 to 2013 it comes to roughly 14,000. I use an average because the MURDER rates change every year. By the way, that's with ANY type of weapon, guns, knives, fists, poison, MURDER IS MURDER.

So how many civilians have been killed by cops. In 2013 there were 301 civilians shot by cops. That is 2.15%.
Are they included in the number of "murdered" list? Maybe not, lets add them to that list and now you have 2.1%, lets just say 2%.

So you mean to tell me, based on these numbers, that cops are out of control? That's 301 killings by cops, usually responding to a non-neutral, non-inert, negatively charged situation, NOT done w/ knives, fists, poison, flamethrowers or grenades, as opposed to 14,000 murders by the civilian population done for illegal purposes?

So what's your excuse for the remaining 98% that were MURDERED by REAL CRIMINALS?

How many law enforcement personnel were killed in the line of duty by REAL CRIMINALS?
In 2014 the tally stands at 3 deaths from vehicular pursuit, 5 from vehicular assault, 1 from a stabbing and 31 from gunfire (6 of which happened in CA), a total 40 LEO deaths across the US.

Lets look at cop killings versus killed cops nationwide. That is 12% LEO death rate. Lets add them to the general murder figures. That's 0.3% of the total murdered population of 14,341 if we include those killed by cops and cops murdered by bad guys.

The population killed by cops is NOTHING compared to the population MURDERED ILLEGALLY by REAL CRIMINALS.

So based on the arguments you anti-LEO types are posting, more cops should be killed right? Would that make it alright? You guys need a reality check at the very least.

Yeah, I agree, there's SOME bad cops out there, but ALL criminals ARE bad.
I'm not talking the pot dealer around the corner, I'm talking mean, sadistic, murderous people with agendas for personal gain.
I would rather deal with a "bad" cop than a "normal" criminal any day, but guess what? I don't have to deal with cops for the most part since I obey major laws (alright, I speed, tailgate, make u-turns, sue me).
Guess who'll want to deal with me for their own sadistic pleasures and personal gain? A CRIMINAL.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Police shoot more often in Mass., cite rise in threats
A five-year trend, even as overall crime is down

By Maria Cramer
| Globe Staff

January 05, 2014

At least 23 people were shot by police in Massachusetts in 2013 — 11 of them fatally, according to figures provided by Boston and State Police, troubling authorities who say the numbers reflect the growing threats police face, and startling civil libertarians who worry about the prevalence of deadly force.

From 2008 through 2013, the number of people shot by officers and state troopers has grown every year. Over that time period, there have been 86 shootings, 67 of which were determined to be justified. Two were classified as accidental, and two led to recommendations that the officers be retrained. The rest remain under investigation. Last year, Boston officials investigated six officer-involved shootings, compared with 1 in 2012. State Police investigated 17 in 2013 compared with 14 in 2012."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"troubling authorities who say the numbers reflect the growing threats police face"

Criminals have become more brazen and common, cops don't know what to expect from them when responding, a recipe for disaster.

"and startling civil libertarians who worry about the prevalence of deadly force."

A politically correct and "friendly" way of saying that criminals are the victims and that bad behavior should be rewarded, hence the lawsuit in the Tacadena case.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 7, 2014 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

More articles!!!!

Do these articles have all the information that a common person can come to the conclusion that the "COPS ARE OUT OF CONTROL???

Or, do these articles just have opinions based on social justice groups claims (Such as the one right here in SB) saying the cops are out of control with NO credible information other than a sign being held by a subject with a bandana over his face throwing gang signs while the news media is interviewing a person that has no idea what she is talking about?

If you are part of this idiotic group placing blame on the cops you should hire a PR person to do your interviews and advise the obviously hand picked idiots in the background to refrain from throwing gang signs which only defeat your purpose in the first place….

PASS THE GANG INJUNCTION QUICKLY!!!!!!

Priceless (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In New York City in 1971 police shot 314 people. In 2010, NYPD shot 24. That is a reduction of 92.33% in police shooting, not figuring per capita which would only greater increase that percentage.

Here is the source of my info (unlike JL who states just Google it)

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pr/...

It also states the NY is the safest big city for officer shooting, probably why JL used it in his skewed comparison.

Kind of deflates people arguements on the increase of cop shootings. But then again I use this as a point to show how statistics can be skewed to support anyones opinion. I think cop-haters like JL and loon have lost focus due to their hatred.

JjL and Loon answer this question please, based on what the Indy has published do you personally think that THIS shooting for which this article is written was not justified?

I am thinking you won't answer in a yes or no, but try and drag a story about a cop in South Africa that did something wrong.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

deniseL, you have to remember the following: JohnLocke suffers from the syndrome known as IHLE (I Hate Law Enforcement).
This reality crippling disorder usually manifests itself in the form of extreme hatred for law enforcement coupled with a sense on false knowledge of how laws are legislated, enacted and enforced.
Research has shown that people with this disorder are also quick to blame law enforcement for a variety of things, many of which law enforcement has nothing to do with.
There is also a paranoia where the person affected with this disorder feels that ALL law enforcement is out to get them.
Research has shown that this disorder is contracted, not genetic and in most cases comes from an episode, usually in the teen wannabe "rebel" years or college "idealistic" age when they did something wrong, got busted and had to face the music.
This usually happens in the form of a confrontation with law enforcement for something petty, but the IHLE sufferer decided to make a mountain out of a molehill, lost the case, felt they were "wronged by the system" (a common theme with IHLE sufferers) and thus the downward spiral intol legal lack of logic begins.
The worst form of onset comes during the college years when underage drinking and an influence from anti-authority ivory tower academics play as contributing factors.
Add an the typical experience with law enforcement in there and in the words of Julius Caesar when his army crossed the Rubicon, "The die has been cast."
The symptoms include disrespect and hatred toward law enforcement, imaginary knowledge of the law, a sense of being oppressed, reliance on and support of mass conspiracy theories, not accepting the fact that law enforcement are people too, confusing real life situations with fantasy scenarios, using selective statistics to prove their point against law enforcement and incessant arguing in favor of criminals and support of frivolous lawsuits against law enforcement.
While not life threatening, IHLE can affect the individual in an adverse fashion. It cripples the ability to discern reality versus fantasy.
But there is hope. The IHLE Care Foundation is doing research to help those with this reality crippling disorder.
With a kind donation we can put an end to this nightmare so please, give where you can, from the heart, every bit goes a long way.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Police State in Review, 2013
The year's biggest stories and the trend toward an American police state.
January 2, 2014

Picture for dramatic effect:
http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-cont...

While some “journalists” would have you believe the biggest stories of 2013 were about twerking celebrities and over-hyped real-life courtroom sagas, much bigger events were happening with far more lasting national significance. The foundation of an American police state is already laid and making its existence known, while most of the country remains blissfully focused on sports, reality shows, establishment pseudo-news, and other distractions.

It would require an encyclopedia to cover all of the injustices, scandals, and brutality that took place in 2013. This list is designed to illustrate certain trends and significant stories from the past year. If Americans don’t fix their apathy and disengagement toward causes that matter, we can expect these trends to continue toward their logical conclusions: an increasingly repressive police state dominating the lives people inside these borders and beyond.

Sections:

Checkpoints, Warrantless Searches Become a Way of Life

DoD Program 1033 Militarizing Local Police Departments

The TSA Continues to Expand Its Reach

The Surveillance State, Revealed

Border Security as Oppressive as Ever

The Destructive Drug War Wages On

Schools Groom Children for Life in Police State USA

More Dangerous Decisions from the Supreme Court

Health Care Law Threatens Individual Rights & Privacy

The Dorner Manhunt

The Boston / Watertown Lockdown

Read it all here:

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/po...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Checkpoints, Warrantless Searches Become a Way of Life OPINION

DoD Program 1033 Militarizing Local Police Departments OPINION

The TSA Continues to Expand Its Reach OPINION

The Surveillance State, Revealed OPINION

Border Security as Oppressive as Ever OPINION

The Destructive Drug War Wages On OPINION

Schools Groom Children for Life in Police State USA OPINION

More Dangerous Decisions from the Supreme Court OPINION

Health Care Law Threatens Individual Rights & Privacy OPINION

The Dorner Manhunt QUESTIONABLE

The Boston / Watertown Lockdown QUESTIONABLE

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@deniseL: Skewed comparison? Police in an 8.5 million person megaloplis shooting 24 people (31 in 2011) means that statistically we should, in SB County with approximately 400,000 people have fewer than 2 shootings to be comparable. Are you completely incapable of understanding this? And the reason I suggest you Google it yourself is to encourage you to do some actual research for actual DATA. I suggest you look at stats for other cities as well.

@blahblahblah; your analysis of me is so full of it as to be hilarious. There is a difference between one who feels that "all law enforcement is out to get them", which I do not, and relying on statistical data indicating a local tendency toward shooting by our local LEOs. You and deniseL keep trying to recast this a some personality disorder on my part. Just read the news, folks, the evidence is right in front of you.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the news and evidence says man extremely high on meth pulls bowie knife on cop, ignores repeated warnings to surrender the knife while advancing on cop and gets shot dead.

its right in front of you j-lo.

lawdy (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loon and JL I knew neither of you would answer my question.

JL using your statement then in 2011 SBPD had no officer shootings. That is 100% fewer then NYPD. So what is your point? NYPD should learn from SBPD? Are you not catching on? I provide links to back up my statements to prove I am not manufacturing statements like you and loon do. You spew opinion masquerading as fact and then becomes hurt when people call you on it. You are entitled to your OPINION, that is what is great about this country. But I am also entitled to disagree with you and point out your errors. Which is what i continue to do.

This article that we are commenting on is about an SBPD shooting. the fact that your only supporter is another cop hater should clue you in that you are a minority. If you are trying to sway my opinion then I would suggest you state facts with verifiable resources. Otherwise your rants are just a waste of your time. But you have been doing it since the '70s (according to you) so at least you are persistent. How much change have you brought about in the past 40 years?

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"He called the number of shootings this year "highly unusual," adding there was an additional shooting near the end of 2011."

http://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/0...

http://www.edhat.com/site/tidbit.cfm?...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JohnLocke: "Just read the news, folks, the evidence is right in front of you."

lawdy: "the news and evidence says man extremely high on meth pulls bowie knife on cop, ignores repeated warnings to surrender the knife while advancing on cop and gets shot dead."

Apparently, lawdy, deniseL, myself and a few others saw the news in front of us and have concluded that IHLE is a menace to logic. Seek help John.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lawdy: "the news and evidence says man extremely high on meth pulls bowie knife on cop, ignores repeated warnings to surrender the knife while advancing on cop and gets shot dead."

OPINION!

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 6:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No loon it is actually fact. Read the investigation conducted by the DA office.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ya the government has an impeccable record of accurately investigating itself.

Not.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

People on meth aren't known for rational behavior to be fair.
I remeber reading one story about a guy in LA who was "cooking meth" in the closet of his apartment and started a fire. Rather than get water or call 911 he instead went to home depot to buy a fire extinguisher. Upon returning 40 minutes later the entire building was in flames.
So I can believe that somebody high on meth would threaten someone, anyone even an armed police officer with a knife.
This doesn't mean that the Police Dept or any governmental department shouldn't also be kept under scrutiny by the Citizenry, the Press, and other governing agencies.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 8, 2014 at 11:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Ya the government has an impeccable record of accurately investigating itself." - Opinion

Present a fact were the current DA's office has been found corrupt please. Wide sweeping statements presented without factual basis is just opinion.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 9, 2014 at 7:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why does it matter if there has been a case where the current DA's office has been found corrupt if the DA has been deemed the monopoly on doing investigations? Why would it find itself to be corrupt?

"JUST-US: Feds Pick Obama & DNC Donor/Supporter to Lead Probe Into IRS' Tea Party Targeting"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2...

MO = Modus Operandi

Did you know that Henry Kissinger was originally appointed to head the 9/11 Commission?

I've already posted near a dozen articles in various comment sections on this topic that show instances where coverups have been exposed regarding shootings by police officers. What I'm more scared of are how many situations occur where these coverups are NOT exposed.

Of course it's not all bad all the time:

@DPDChief

I have terminated SC Amy Wilburn today for firing her weapon upon an unarmed person without fear or justification.

https://www.vocativ.com/01-2014/im-fi...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 9, 2014 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, conspiracies abound! Chicken Little dude, get a grip, the sky ain't falling. Sorry, but seriously, it isn't.
But keep on keepin' on loony bro, the more you post, the more paranoid you sound and the more a case is made.
I'm starting to think you're that guy I hear at the McDonalds on Fairview in Goleta when I go get my fries and chocolate shake at lunch
His friend just sits there quietly (and patiently) and lets his conspiracy theory expert friend go on... and on... and on. Eventually it becomes background drone, white noise, prattle.
You want to know what a part of the problem with your conspiracy theories is? Here, let me clue you in. Lack of a sense of reality and lack of perspective of the real world.
You mention 9/11 and Kissinger's refusal to be head of the committee. Did you ever stop to think that maybe he just feels he's too old and tired for that task? See, THAT is a REALISTIC possibility as opposed to a far fetched conspiracy.
Then let's look at the view everybody on the left side of the aisle (approximately 53% of Americans, based on the popular vote from the 2012 presidential election) shared about Dubya: BUSH WAS AN IDIOT! Yet, somehow, he masterminded 9/11? PLEASE! GIVE US A BREAK!
On the one hand, you say the guy's a dolt, on the other hand you say he's a mastermind. Sorry friend, you can't have both.
The same view was also shared about his staff and cabinet, so please, don't try to bring them into it either.
I get the feeling there'll be a whole new slew of wikipedia and youtube links coming our way so people who live in the REAL world, BATTEN DOWN THE HATCHES! More fantasy to come.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 9, 2014 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loony you have posted nothing relevant about the DA or our local police.

Your examples are as relevant as me saying that the government once supported slavery so SBPD is racist. See a connection?

Kind of sounds far flung huh? That is the way I read your posts. Now if you were to say you don't trust the cops in city XYZ and post an article about news that is relevant to that XYZ city I would say you were cooking with gas.

Blind fear based on nothing more than imagination is like a child afraid of the dark because there are monsters in movies. Adults should not function this way.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 9, 2014 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DeniseL, and like monsters in movies... THEY'RE IMAGINARY!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 10, 2014 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

J-lo's standard for handling armed bad guys.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qVhCNgct...

lawdy (anonymous profile)
January 10, 2014 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

^^^ LOL! This guy!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 10, 2014 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

loonpt (anonymous profile)
January 16, 2014 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Loony cute graphic, cite sources please. Otherwise like all your others stuff it is just fiction. But then again why worry about facts.

deniseL (anonymous profile)
January 19, 2014 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey deniseL, loonytoons has a daily talk show at the McDonalds on Fairview and Hollister in Goleta where he talks about all these fascinating conspiracies in detail. Check it out some time! Oops, wait, that's not loony? You mean the inmates are taking over the asylum? YIKES!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
January 22, 2014 at 5:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My condolences to the whole tacadena family. Which has unfortunately grown smaller in the past years so many fallen. Never forgotten my prayers are always with you Poncho, Eddie and the children that have been left behind. Brian had some issues as everyone does but he was a friend to his friends and all who knew him can not be surprised by this he knew who he was and he came to terms with his fate to the end. I wish you luck in this case SBPD has had a grudge against the tacadena family going back years. Kathy Beltran Tacadena you and Alicia are always in my thoughts ans prayers.
kathie

letf8b (anonymous profile)
April 1, 2014 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Santa Barbara Fair & Expo

Santa Barbara Fair and Expo celebrates “25 Years of Magic”, ... Read More