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Life or Death?


Wednesday, August 13, 2014
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It is imperative that radical Islam be stopped, according to Somali-born victim and activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She goes on to say that people through out the world must understand what is happening, especially in relation to the Israeli/Hamas conflict. This war is between a democratic, free, independent country that chooses ” life ” and a radical terrorist organization that chooses “death.” Israel believes in life before death, while Hamas believes in death, where life is transitional and something wonderful happens after you die. Is it any wonder that jihadists sacrifice/kill their children, wives, mothers and civilians?

So the question of the day: Will America, Europe, and the rest of the world choose “life “or “death? Israel or Hamas?

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Independent Discussion Guidelines

Diana, Diana, you mean well but understand nothing about Islam. Certainly, radical Salafists and other extreme Islamic sects are dangerous, but try not to scare yourself to death. Ayaan Hirsi Ali's story is captivating, but she herself has been captured by the extreme right, and shows all the hatred of Islam that an apostate often does. Example? Ali literally states that militant and ferocious Israeli PM B. Netanyahu "should get the Nobel Peace Prize"....http://freebeacon.com/national-security/somalian-human-rights-activist-gives-her-take-on-israel-hamas-conflict/uh, OK, sure, just check Gaza.
Ridiculous and pathetic, try a little harder, Diana. Also, you might learn something from the Indy column "Jihad of the Pen" -- check it out. There are many sects within Islam, the world's second largest religion.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 3:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't Christians,Buddhists and other faiths also believe "life is transitional and something wonderful happens after you die" ?

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan, how do tell the difference between the Evil and the Righteous?

dou4now (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dr. Dan,
Unlike you, Aysan Hirsi Ali is a woman who was brutalizes by
radicals. Her mission is to stand up to their tyranny.. She understands
them, so I believe her.
Ken,
Others faiths do believe in the after life, however, they do not
kill women, children and innocent people to get there. Radical
jihadist groups are political in nature and driven by fanatical religious
believes. They would kill you and Dr. Dan, if given the opportunity.

thethorns4 (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Christians, Hindus and Buddhist sects have killed people in a politicized versions of their faiths.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Christian" nations have reigned more death and destruction over the world than Islam in the last 100 years, and I'm more scared of being killed by a fly than a Muslim.

Israel keeps Palestinians in a concentration camp, that isn't pro-life, that is pro-slavery and pro-genocide.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

religions and the death of innocents have been the best of friends since year 1.

lawdy (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Was Stalin head of a Christian nation?

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No genius Jarvis the religion was Stalinism.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, Herschel,

The Bolshevik leadership was disproportionately Jewish and antagonistic to all things Christian - even church bells - which were conficscated so they wouldn't disturb atheists in the countryside.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry Doody your grasp on Soviet history is almost as weak as your hold on reality. Stay on your meds.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Diana Thorn,

I agree that Israelis do not kill innocent women and children to get to heaven, so what do they hope to gain by killing innocent women and children?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

False choices and incongruent characterizations abound in this letter.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 11:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EB, when see the byline do you expect less than ignorance on a profoundly comic level?

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 12:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thorn asks: "Will America, Europe, and the rest of the world choose “life “or “death? Israel or Hamas?"

It looks like we don't have to choose, we can have both: Life for Israel and death for the Palestinians.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 1:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nutjob! When Diana writes, "Unlike you, Aysan Hirsi Ali is a woman who was brutalizes[sic] by
radicals." OK, so I'm not a woman (unless you ask Sealion!), I haven't been "brutalizes"[sic] by radicals...thus, I know nothing. I gain wisdom by being brutalized somehow? Attempt to make some sense, eh? Even dewdly makes fun of you, you haft know you're in trouble. Do you get off on these inane bursts of Know-Nothing-ness [look up the Know Nothings of 1840s].

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 2:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan - It is difficult to argue that practitioners of islam aren't also practitioners of misogyny as well, isn't it?

Botany (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

good point Botany. In short -- Islam is the youngest, or "teenager", in the triad of the 3 Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), about 1300 years old vs. Christianity's 2000+ years and Judaism's ca. 4000 years. I am not about to defend all of it's practices. Christianity went through its own horribly bloody period of the religious wars of Reformation, e.g. also the 30 Years War killing about 1/3 of the Germans...and so on. Islam has a softer side, e.g. the Sufis, and do check out our Indy "Islam of the Pen" writer. At no time did another country or faith attempt to step in an modernize or soften, say, Christianity in it's horrendously bloody period [Christians also attacked Islam in the Crusades, and all remember the bloody massacre by the Christian knights in 1st Crusade July 1099: 30,000 dead, mostly Moslems and Jews].
So sure, I hope Wahhabi, Salafist, and other extreme forms of Islam mellow out, esp. with regard to their treatment of women. Does anyone think invading their areas, kicking A** there, will do anything but harden their resolve?? What have our invasions of Iraq (2x) and Afghanistan accomplished??
Both loonpt (his first parag.) and KV make good points.
What is your angle in this query, Botany? That much of Islam is misogynistic soYes, plenty of misogyny in Islam, and plenty in some of our extreme forms of Christianity (no Mormon bishops allowed, no female Catholic priests, etc. etc.). Reread St. Paul about the evils of women, too.
Do YOU agree with D. Thorn that Islam (Hamas is hardly all of Islam; I detest Hamas) is Evil, and democratic countries are Good?? What would that mean? We urge Israel to kill everyone in Gaza?? Great, good job there Diana.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 6:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mean "its" for two mistaken "it's"; Ms Thorn please outline how the USA in its immense wisdom would follow your "imperative that radical Islam be stopped"??? The actions of Israel beginning with the 1967 Six-Day War would be your template?? Gee, that's really working out well for Israel AND the hapless civilians in Gaza, isn't it? You believe we can change people's BELIEF SYSTEMS by force? sick.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 6:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

read this Diana: http://www.independent.com/news/2014/...
There are MANY sects within Islam.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not convinced that the amount of years of its existence with regards to the the other Abrahamic religions gives Islam a pass when it comes to stepping into the 21st century. I've sort of come around, though, to Hitchens' thesis that "religion," indeed "poisons everything."
One need look no further than the former Yugoslavia of the 90s to find examples of mutual atrocities on both the Christian sectarian and Christian/Muslim divide.

Can't take the Thorn family too seriously in any case. Their "talking points" are all derived from Fox News and its ilk.

I do wish that moderate voices of Islam were willing to make themselves with greater frequency.

Minor historical point: When the Moors invaded southern Europe, they weren't doing so as carriers of "culture" (though that was a byproduct for sure), and the invasion was centuries before the Crusades.

Bin Laden and now others often expressed the desire to return to "al-Andalus" which they still consider part of their lost Caliphate.

zappa (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 7:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

* make themselves HEARD--must be typo Thursday.

zappa (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 7:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No, I don't think Islam is evil. I DO think Hamas is evil though.

Botany (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Where was "radical Islam" in 1904, 1922? 1948? 1967? Why did the Jews from Russia insist on having Palestine rather than take the British offer of Uganda?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Religion (in whatever form) inevitably entails turning one's critical-thinking switch to the OFF position. Religion is Truth, to those who desperately need Truth. All else is eminently negotiable. Life & death? Included!

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, BTW, Herschel, you are a malevolent ethnocentrist, and a tedious proponent of ad hominem arguments (which only make Jews look bad.)

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

atomic, Isn't science a method by which people hope to find truth?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly; "Why did the Jews from Russia insist on having Palestine rather than take the British offer of Uganda? "
Because that's where Jerusalem and the Temple of Solomon are. Actually, the usual reason also applies - it's all about oil, which Israel is floating on. The Rothschild family started buying land in Palestine in 1917, and the state of Israel was essentially founded by Rothschilds, not by religious jews.
Front page of the May 16, 1948 Palestine Post: http://rasica.files.wordpress.com/201...

14noscams (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken-Volok: Islam, Judaism and Christianity share a belief in a messiah. They share a belief that they're descended from Abraham, or Ibrahim. Jews and Christians have religious ties to Jerusalem, and Islam has political/legal ties to Jerusalem.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly; "Why did the Jews from Russia insist on having Palestine rather than take the British offer of Uganda? "

...To get to the other side?

billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

14noscams,

The Taldmudist Jews from Russia have no genetic or historical ties to Palestine - their only ties are mythological. The Jews indigenous to Palestine - the Jews who did have genetic and historical ties to Palestine opposed the Zionist program of creating a Jewish "homeland" in Palestine. They not only opposed immigration of Eastern European Jews, but they wanted to accept the British offer of Uganda.

You imply that the "homeland" story is just a pretext for the Rothschilds to buy up oil-rich lands. But why did the Rothschilds need a Jewish homeland in Palestine if they wanted to buy land for its oil? And while the rest of the Middle East has a long history of oil extraction, Israel does not. That can only mean that what is there is not worth the cost of extraction and refining.

In 1922 Jews owned 3% of the land in Palestine; that had risen to 7% by 1947 and after expelling or killing 700,000 Palestinian Arabs in 1948 they owned 77%. Is that how the Rothschilds "founded" the State of Israel? Where does "Israel's right to exist" come from? The Rothschilds?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 5:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"“The recent fighting has resulted in substantial direct damage to Gaza's 17,000 hectares of croplands as well as much of its agricultural infrastructure, including greenhouses, irrigation systems, animal farms, fodder stocks and fishing boats,” the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) said in a statement.

With farming and fishing activities virtually halted after farmers, herders and fishermen were forced to flee their domains, and with the Israeli blockade imposed, Palestinians are facing food shortages.

Gaza has lost half of its population of poultry birds either from direct shelling or because the birds died from a lack of water, as the IDF bombardment destroyed Palestinian infrastructure, the World Food Programme (WFP) believes."

http://rt.com/news/180480-gaza-farmin...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey loon, just because you state crap like "Christian nations have reigned more death and destruction over the world than Islam in the last 100 years" does not make it true. Feel free to cite some statistics about the reign of Christian terror in the past 100 years vs Islam in order to prove your point. And no, do not bring up the Crusades because both sides slaughtered each other but the Muslims had there asses handed to them and they are still pissed.
Feel free to cite the horrors against females by Christians when compared to benevolent Islam as well.
Perhaps your only fall back is that the Muslim idiots are making a full blown attempt to regain and hold onto the unmitigated number 1 position in the world for being murdering, oppressive asshats?

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 7:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sure, zappa, but I wasn't giving Islam a "free pass" since I know that "to understand" isn't the same as " toforgive", but the 'youngest' of the 3 Abrahamic helps understand their intra-religious squabblings' intensities. Peter Sloterdijk would tend to agree with Hitchens, except he feels its the MONOTHEISMS and their insistences on "glory/or/hell" theologies, with rich traditions of intolerance, are the essential culprits. Intra-hatreds are worse than those between the 3 Abrahamic faiths. Yes, Thorns have been infected by the Fox virus; silly folks.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@14noscams, I'd add that Islam also has extremely potent ties to Jerusalem: the "Further Mosque" is there (Al Aqsa); the Dome of the Rock is above the supposedly sacred rock where Ibrahim [Abraham] putatively sacrificed Isaac [Isa] is there, AND it's also the location where the Qur'an says Muhammed leapt into some Moslem holy sphere (not Heaven) through 40 veils to converse with Allah and Moses and Jesus and lots of others.. Muhammed got there on a sacred Night Journey on Bouraq the human-headed steed. Both Al Aqsa and Dome of the Rock are on Temple Mount: 3rd most sacred spot in Islam. When I was inside the Dome of the Rock the Allahu Akbars and sacred chantings were intense and all were bowing and so on; Moslems showed me the heel imprint in this Rock which Muhammed supposedly left when he jumped up. This is a VERY sacred spot for Moslems, right after Mecca and the Ka-aba. When religious Zionists want to re-erect "the Third Temple" it would have to be after destroying the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa...a pretty big mistake.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 7:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There are 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world. The problem is not with Islam, but with the Zionist program that allowed European Jews with no genetic or historical ties to Palestine to establish, in the guise of a "homeland", a center for world government under Talmudic Law. The basis for Israel's much touted "right to exist" is the Torah, not the League of Nations.

"The Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth . . . The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself . . . And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee. . . thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow. And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath . . ."

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yup-it's the European Jews that are attempting genocide on Christians in Iraq and Egypt. Any yup again, the United Nations has no opinion about the right of Israel to exist; it's only in the Torah.

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 6:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

troll dewdly, anti-Semite! just wants to derail the discuss: ignore.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan, have you ever been a soccer goalie?

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 7:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@atomic: have done it a bit, what's your point? Have YOU ever been to Israel?

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

More non sequitors:
I've been to Israel;
I have never been a soccer goalie;
Troll does not quite describe dewdly. Maybe "Uber Troll".

Just look what the mad cap Muslims are up to today-those crazy kids...
Islamic State executes 700 people from Syrian tribe
A human rights group says beheadings were used to execute many of the al-Sheitaat tribe, the majority of them civilians.

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nomoresanity,

DrDan has instructed you to ignore history before 1948 because she doesn't want you to question Israel's right to exist, but the question remains - where was radical Islam in 1904, 1922, 1939, 1947, 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973? Where were the beheadings and the suicide bombers? Where was radical Islam when the Spanish expelled the Moors 400 years ago? Are we really to believe that Muslims waited until 2004 to react to their expulsion by bombing trains in Madrid? That episode left Spaniards scratching their heads until they realized it was a false flag attack.

Just in case you disobey DrDan and read my post I would like to draw your attention to one of the methods by which a tiny population of Jews has been able to gain world power - they pit the stronger and more numerous populations against each other and even against themselves. Israel doesn't fight unless it's to shoot fish in a barrel. They send us into Afghanistan and Iraq and 10 years on, no one remembers why we went there in the first place. Just like no one remembers why the U.S. went to war in 1917. In 1917 it wasn't beheadings, it was Belgian babies being tossed into the air and caught on German bayonets. War propaganda makes us forget the how and why of war and there are always DrDans around to keep the occasional stray in line.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, you've convinced me. I'm in. Do I get jackboots to go with the swastika I had tattooed on my forehead yesterday?
I have an Arab buddy now living in La Jolla that is a Coptic; I'm going to ring him about joining our club as well.

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 8:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nomoresanity,

You have to get permission from your mother or DrDan.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly must have a micro tool, referring to other men as women as if:
(a) being a woman were something to be ashamed of
and
(b) doing so would make his shortcomings bigger or workable.
What a pathetic scheisenkopf.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken,

What tells you that DrDan is male?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

At least my husband let's me take of my burqa in our living room. That party animal; he is so enlightened...

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nomoresanity,

But he makes you stay home while he is out beheading civilians - you have to rely on reports from the "human rights group" that is always invited to these events.

After all your deflections the question remains - where was radical Islam in 1904, 1922, 1939, 1947, 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973? Where were the beheadings and suicide bombings in Algeria as the Muslims fought for independence? Is there a difference between the French "right to exist" in Muslim-majority Algeria and the Eastern European "right to exist" in Muslim-majority Palestine?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dr. Dan is a personal friend of mine, as are many of the LOCAL commentators here, including some I disagree with passionately on occasion.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken, Well, that doesn't help me a whole lot since you both sound like women.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

my suggestion to ignore dewdly is mainly because...he's interested in slander generally, and about my gender in particular [it's pretty hilarious]; and s/he's awfully nasty, too.
This thread is about D.Thorn's wild query:
"Will America...choose 'life' or 'death'? Israel or Hamas?"

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 10:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Ken,

What tells you that DrDan is male?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 1:23 p.m

He's never been pregnant.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 4:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dewdly, the fact the noMoor (get it, the Moors?) sanity's hubby is beheading civilians on a daily basis is irrelevant to the fact that he has become more enlightened. Rome wasnt founded in a day, so peaceful coexistance will take a while.

U C Dewdly, the thing you've got to know is...everything is show biz...Heil Myself, raise your hand, there's not greater, dictator in the land!

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 4:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

P.S. to nomassanity, dont do the swastika in the forehead thing, Charles Mansons got one and look where it landed him.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 4:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan,

Slander!?? Nasty? You use the standard name-calling method to deflect the conversation away from legitimate questions that you find troublesome and then you officiously tell other posters to ignore me.

Most posters have an anonymous profile and a screen name which make one's gender a matter of speculation. Once one settles on an image it has a tendency to stick - that's the principle you rely on when you call someone an anti-Semite.

D.Thorn's "wild query" is the result of the incessant anti-Muslim propaganda that was invented by the Israelis to make a defeated remnant of Palestinians appear threatening, murderous, fanatical, immoral, and stupid. It is a recent media contrivance and that is why no one will answer the question - where was "radical Islam" in 1904, 1922, 1939, 1947, 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973? Where were the suicide bombings and beheadings? Where were the tales of virgins in paradise? Where are the underground suicide vest factories Netanyahu told us about?

Why weren't the French attacked by Muslim suicide bombers in Algeria's war of indpendence? And finally, If European Jews have a "right to exist" in Muslim Palestine why don't French Christians have a "right to exist" in Muslim Algeria?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 5:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dewdly is right, Dr.Dan, Ken, Loonpit, and NIck Welsh are all women.

Men have breasts, (maybe not as big as woman's brest) and every man on the planet has an x chromosone therefore, they are all at least partly female.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks dp14-I was sitting on State St ready to do the deed and read your common sense advice.
Instead I got a tattoo of a big ass scimitar...

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@ DrDan: no, I've never been to Israel, because I'm not white. Paris was bad enough. When you go back, you might try a spray-on tan and black hair dye, just for a change.

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
August 20, 2014 at 12:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)


@atomic: have done it a bit, what's your point? Have YOU ever been to Israel?

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 7:13 a.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm6qw_...

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
August 20, 2014 at 5:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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