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Who Backs Anti-Oil?


Monday, August 11, 2014
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The big news of the day in Santa Barbara County is Measure P. If this passes, our county and the entire state will sink even lower into the ranks of poverty. California was once ranked number 5 in economic standing in the world. Today it stands a number 8 in economic ratings. Liberals and progressives have devastated our county, state, and country with their forced regulations on every business they can bully.

I have listened to some of the arguments for Measure P and have yet seen or heard any proof of their accusations about how oil has contaminated any water source because of fracking or steam injection. What I have heard is a lot of what ifs, maybes, possiblys, and other unsubstantiated phrases from the Anti-Oil Brigade.

If Spain had said to Columbus, “What if?” or “Maybe,” where would the world be now?

I have a big concern for who is funding the Anti-Oil Groups here. If America stops producing oil, Arab countries that hate us will sell billions of barrels to us and supply their means for our destruction. The liberals in the ‘70s had our speed limits lowered to 55 mph because it saved gas. With an instant mileage meter in today’s cars, we are able to see that as another untruth by the Anti-Oil bunch. Again, who is funding this attack on America?

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Independent Discussion Guidelines

Ed, in the mid 80's CA was the 5th largest economy. As of Sept of 2013, CA has dropped to the 10th largest economy. Thank you liberals.....

Matt Damon's anti fracking movie was funded by the United Arab Emirates.

In January 2015, we get pay for cap and trade every time we gas up our car.

"California's gas prices, which typically run 40 to 50 cents above the national average, are already the highest in the continental U.S. due to the state's fuel blending requirements and taxes—which also top the other 49 states. The Boston Consulting Group predicted in 2012 that cap and trade and the state's carbon fuel standard would drive up gas prices between $0.49 and $1.83 per gallon by 2020."

It is past time for our state and county to wake up.

NO on "P"

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2014 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You seem to have forgotten the years under a Republican governor, when the state was in debt. And, btw, Schwarzenegger, Republican, supported renewable energy.

And I guess it was the liberals fault that the entire country tanked thanks to Wall Street shenanigans. And the Enron debacle, thanks Phil Gramm, that trashed the CA economy.

There are tons of factors that have affected the CA economy, most Republican caused, some Democratic caused, and some the greed of Wall Street, the 911 crashing of the US economy, George Bush II costing the country about 2 trillion dollars on an unnecessary war, but no, it is all the liberals fault. Brought to you by the flat-earthers.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2014 at 7:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

California's deregulation and subsequent energy crisis[edit]

See also: California electricity crisis
During October 2000, Daniel Scotto, the most renowned utility analyst on Wall Street, suspended his ratings on all energy companies conducting business in California because of the possibility that the companies would not receive full and adequate compensation for the deferred energy accounts used as the basis for the California Deregulation Plan enacted during the late 1990s.[citation needed] Five months later, Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) was forced into bankruptcy. Senator Phil Gramm, the second largest recipient of campaign contributions from Enron,[36] succeeded in legislating California's energy commodity trading deregulation. Despite warnings from prominent consumer groups which stated that this law would give energy traders too much influence over energy commodity prices, the legislation was passed during December 2000.

As the periodical Public Citizen reported, "Because of Enron's new, unregulated power auction, the company's 'Wholesale Services' revenues quadrupled—- from $12 billion in the first quarter of 2000 to $48.4 billion in the first quarter of 2001."[37]

Before passage of the deregulation law, there had been only one Stage 3 rolling blackout declared. After passage, California had a total of 38 blackouts defined as Stage 3 rolling blackouts, until federal regulators intervened during June 2001.[citation needed] These blackouts occurred mainly as a result of a poorly designed market system that was manipulated by traders and marketers. Enron traders were revealed as intentionally encouraging the removal of power from the market during California's energy crisis by encouraging suppliers to shut down plants to perform unnecessary maintenance, as documented in recordings made at the time.[38][39] These acts contributed to the need for rolling blackouts, which adversely affected many businesses dependent upon a reliable supply of electricity, and inconvenienced a large number of retail consumers. This scattered supply increased the price exponentially, and Enron traders were thus able to sell power at premium prices, sometimes up to a factor of 20x its normal peak value.

Phill Gramm, I believe, is Republican.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2014 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lack of regulations on Wall Street (thanks Phil Gramm who repealed the Glass Steagall act), devastated the country, when it was losing 800,000 jobs a month at the end of 2008, and taxpayers had to bail out the crooks. Yep, another case where the repeal of regulations badly HURT the country.

If you are going to blame liberals, PLEASE PROVIDE facts to back it up, not just vague, misleading charges.

And those who are pro-Solar, are not anti-oil per se, they are anti-pollution. When solar is the future, why would anyone want to pollute something that does not need polluting?

I guess we can expect more of these factless, emotional anti Measure P letters.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2014 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So it is Phil Gramm that ruined Texas and North Dakota, 3 percent unemployment? I get it........

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 5:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Republican President Bill Clinton signed all of Phil Gramm's legislation. You're right.....

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks geo, you submit that they are all crooks. With all that drilling and fracking in ND and TX, you'd think there'd be more employment. Matt Damon's movie was fiction, you should watch the nonfiction frack movies but you probably think those are fiction too. Ed's just another shill, pawn in the game that's bringing us all down. Thanks Ed.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I did not say that Phil Gramm was responsible for the state of CA. I was merely countering the claim by the OP that it was all the liberal's fault. Both sides have made mistakes. And yes, Clinton did sign the repeal bill, thanks to one of his advisors, who did not become Fed Chairman, thank goodness.

The point here is to recognize the faults of both sides, which the OP does not. Please repeat: Republicans and Democrats have both made mistakes, and the state of CA is thanks to the sum of their mistakes and their successes. Anything else, is just plain false. Please note that there was a budget deficit in CA for a long time thanks to the blocking of legislation by Republicans. It was only when CA had a Democratic super-majority, that the budget problems could be fixed.

As for Texas - here is an interesting article. Please note that the "improvements" in Texas are thanks to a lot of factors; not deregulation and lower taxes. Regulations have in fact kept house prices low.

Whatever its boosters may say, Texas is not a helpful model for economic growth for the rest of the country. True, the number of people and jobs in Texas has been expanding, causing other states to wonder whether Texas holds important lessons for state policies that can generate similar growth elsewhere. The answer is no.

Texas has unique geographic and demographic characteristics that have helped lift its economy in recent years. Its border location encourages trade and immigration and helps fuel population and job growth.

A combination of available land and lending regulations have kept housing prices comparatively low and helped Texas avoid the real estate depression that dragged down many other state economies.

Though Texas' economy has diversified in recent decades, the state's abundant oil and gas resources remain a valuable asset - especially when prices for those commodities are high - that most other states lack.

Even if it were possible for other states to replicate these features, the fact that so many Texans have failed to benefit from them - with poverty, low-wage jobs and lack of health insurance all above the national average - makes Texas a less-than-desirable model to follow.

... contd

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

... contd

Even with all those natural advantages, Texas' economic picture is not entirely rosy, and it may not be able to retain the advantage it currently holds over other states for much longer. Beyond population and job growth, Texas continues to lag behind the rest of the country in other important measures of economic success. About one in ten hourly wage jobs in Texas pays at or below the minimum wage ($7.25 per hour), more than in any other state, and Texas has the nation's 11th-highest poverty rate. Such high levels of poverty and low-wage employment make the Texas economy a dubious model for the nation."

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3739

So the OP is wrong on a number of factors:
a) The state of the CA economy is not simply thanks to regulations.
b) Proponents of Measure P are not anti-oil, but rather anti-pollution.
c) The supposed success of Texas is not all that great thanks to their poverty rate which is greater than that of CA.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha: According to George Mason University data, California ranks in the bottom 5 of all 50 states in most economic measures. Take a look:
http://mercatus.org/publication/state....

We had it all, not that long ago. Now? What else could have done this but over-zealous industry-killing regulation?

nuffalready (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha, you seem well informed. Thanks for the intelligent debate. I am curious, why would the smart people of New York State cut taxes and regulation to attract economic growth? Your thoughts.....Thanks again.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fracknation: Russia worldwide supports the bogus anti-fracking movement so they can sell more Gazprom. Ya think?

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha, depends on who is ranking the poverty rates in California and Texas which are fairly similar:

http://www.povertyusa.org/the-state-o...

Leading cause of proverty are single parent homes. Stupid is stupid no matter what state so proverty rates are meaningless in this argument about California's exceptionally poor and over-regulated business climate compared to Texas.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 5:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Confused Jarvis, should I be hating the russians or the stupid and poor americans that are falling for the russian propaganda?

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2014 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"... supply their means for our destruction."

Dr. Evil has taken up residence in the Middle East?

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 1:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Leading cause of poverty is low wages. There are far more low wage jobs in Texas. Anyway, time will tell whether the Texas or CA way survives - each is beset with their own peculiar problems and advantages.

Back to the science of fracking, which Measure P is all about.

"How Man-Made Earthquakes Are Changing the Seismic Landscape
Scientists say fracking is part of why Oklahoma now rivals California in quake activity."

"Scientists have known about man-made earthquakes for decades. They've blame some reservoirs for seismic activity because reservoir water that trickles underground ends up lubricating faults that then slip—or, quake—as a result.

These days, there appears to be a more common and growing culprit: fracking. (Scientists believe it's the deep disposal of wastewater from fracking that incites seismic events.) Some states where fracking is on the rise are in turn experiencing more and more earthquakes—which is why earthquake scientists believe the big one could strike Oklahoma any moment. "People are starting to compare Oklahoma to California in terms of the rate of magnitude-threes and larger," said Robert Williams, a geophysicist for the U.S. Geological Survey.

Earlier this summer, the U.S. Geological Survey issued a warning saying it's crucial for Oklahomans to prepare for the "increased hazard." That prediction is based on a flurry of earthquakes that registered at least 3.0 or higher in magnitude, an uptick that scientists agree is linked to fracking in the state. More on that in a minute. First, let's look at how seismic activity has changed in Oklahoma."

So if fracking is turning Oklahoma into California, what will fracking turn California into? California earthquakes on steroids?

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 6:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Fossil fuel use is a major cause of global warming. Is anyone aware of the huge and unusual fires this year in Russia, Sweden, and Canada? Is is extremely alarming.

The comments at the link are really worth reading --- about the state of the planet. And they are not scare tactics... it is all about REAL stuff happening now.

http://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/...

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 6:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And stopping steam injection extraction in Santa Barbara will put a halt to all this, right?

Botany (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 7:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One can live easily on minimum wage with good plannig and discipline. One can live well with a doube income on minimum wage. Low wages do not cause poverty. Poor choices cause poverty. And the welfare system today grows permanent poverty.

No, you can't live well in a premium coastal California city on minimum wage but that only means one is making poor choices about their own self-inflicted impovrishment. Move to Coalinga and work for McDonald's and you will do just fine.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The normal global cycles of climate cause both global warming and cooling. Burning fossil fuel is a localized blip on this planet. Adapt or die.

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha, those of you fracktivists that are alarmed by earthquake risks should make a move to North Dakota. ND is heavily fracked and very safe from earthquake hazards.

Please see updated Earthquake Hazard map from USGS:

http://news.discovery.com/earth/weath...

Your fracking concerns in Santa Barbara County are unwarranted. Fracking is not happening here and won't. The Monterey shale is naturally fractured by nature here.

Please stop the anti-fracking disinformation campaign. The deception and disinformation from the measure "P" folks lacks credibility at a minimum.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I back anti oil. Why? Science.
"We know the physics of if you put CO2 into the atmosphere we know what is going to happen. That is physics. You can't deny that; you can't deny the Keeling curve that we've been pumping it in there. We know how much fossil fuels we're taking out of the ground, and we know how much we're burning and it's traceable. And all the projections of climate models are becoming observable facts.
That's all you need. It's real straightforward."
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25...

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Geo, what about earthquakes in Texas and Oklahoma, look up those observable facts.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Spacy, measure "P" concerns Santa Barbara County. Please get off the Frack disinformation campaign. If you want to stop Fracking move to TX or OK and start your measure "P" out there. Earthquakes are still going happen here, even though we are Frack free.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@nativegeo, how is your astroturf growing?

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"And all the projections of climate models are becoming observable facts. That's all you need. It's real straightforward."-spacey

Actually the climate models have predicted exponential increases in warmth over the last 20 years and the last 18 years has not seen any global warming. Over 95% of climate models have been wrong and severely overstated climate change. The warmest summer on record was 1934. Observable facts.

I still might vote for your Measure P, not buying your climate bs tho.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

From USGS - here is your "science" about earthquakes in Okla, oherwise knowns as speculation:

....."The 2011 Oklahoma earthquake sequence included the November 6, 2011, M5.7 earthquake that ruptured a part of the Wilzetta fault system, a complex fault zone about 200 km (124 mi) in length near Prague, Oklahoma.

Less than 24 hours prior to the M5.7 earthquake, a M5.0 foreshock occurred on November 5, 2011. That foreshock occurred near active waste-water disposal wells, and was linked in a previously published study to fluid injection in those wells.

The earthquakes have not been directly linked to hydrofracturing.

The research published this week suggests that the foreshock, by increasing stresses where M5.7 mainshock ruptured, may have triggered the mainshock, which in turn, triggered thousands of aftershocks along the Wilzetta fault system, including a M5.0 aftershock on November 8, 2011.

If this hypothesis is correct, the M5.7 earthquake would be the largest and most powerful earthquake ever associated with wastewater injection. All three earthquakes of magnitude 5.0 and greater along the Wilzetta fault exhibited strike-slip motion at three independent locations along the fault, suggesting that three separate portions of the Wilzetta fault system were activated. "

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

USGS also asked to explore the Oroville dam and earthquake connections in 1975. Explanation of the difficulties sorting out causation vs coincidence.

https://www.eeri.org/lfe/pdf/usa_orov...

JarvisJarvis (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hershel Greenspan: YOU on the left our the ASTRO TURF. ASK YOUR BILLIONAIRE FRIENDS TO INDEMNIFY the COUNTY. The truth is out!

How a Club of Billionaires and Their Foundations Control the Environmental Movement and Obama’s EPA
July 30, 2014

"Through these arrangements, the Billionaire’s Club gains access to a close knit network of likeminded funders, environmental activists, and government bureaucrats who specialize in manufacturing phony “grassroots” movements and in promoting bogus propaganda disguised as science and news to spread an anti-fossil energy message to the unknowing public. Not only is the system incredibly sophisticated, but the Club’s attorneys and accountants have mastered the loopholes and gray areas in the tax code, which enable them to obtain a full tax benefit, even when the recipient of the grant is not recognized as a public charity, and even if the money indirectly and impermissibly funds political activities.
In order to understand how the Billionaire’s Club colludes with the far-left environmental activists and government officials, the report articulates the fundamental framework that governs these relationships. Essentially, the far-left environmental machine is comprised of hundreds of nonprofit organizations. Each entity is set up according to its designated purpose and is either a private foundation or a public charity, depending on where the cog fits in this well-designed wheel."

http://eelegal.org/wp-content/uploads...

Those of us that work for a living can see through the well funded left wing scam known as measure "P".

Vote NO on P

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 7:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

are

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)


@nativegeo, how is your astroturf growing?

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 2:19 p.m

Nothing's growing in Santa Barbara; they're no longer allowed to water there.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2014 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you got me geo, Im a billionaire with an agenda. My pockets are so deep that I'm buying up election props with my pseudo science that I lifted from NASA by commenting on news sites. Why go to TX, OK when I can try to keep what's happening there from happening in my native city? So Loon, NASA scientists and other scientists are wrong? I bow to your omniscience.
'If this hypothesis is correct, the M5.7 earthquake would be the largest and most powerful earthquake ever associated with wastewater injection.' so ..... not the fracking, but the wastewater that the oil companies pump into the ground.... if the hypothesis is correct. Looking at the maps of where the earthquakes are happening and the location of these oil sites, you kind of have to wonder, coincidence? How about studying the effects before the business is put into place? Na, makes too much sense.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

First off, Measure P WILL shut down the onshore oil industry in this county.
It may take a couple of years but when oil producers need to de-scale an injection well it won't be allowed. Nor will the drilling of a new well for that purpose.That's one of the cleverly written ways that it was designed. The water the "Water Gaurdians" want to protect is not used in the production cycle. Nor has it been affected by cyclic steaming, or de-scaling acidizing. The acidizing the WG speak of is a rock dissolving acid job that is not used in the county. Neither is the big bad boogey man nicknamed "fracking". The taking lawsuits that will be filed could bankrupt the county.
If this was a ban on hydraulic fracturing, the industry would be fine with that. As that technique is not used here. These people need to call the measure what it is: Anti-oil.
Measure P stands for Pretentious
NO on P

catskinner (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2014 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We need to stop burning through our oil resource as if there is no tomorrow, lest we get what we strive for. Oil should be used sparingly since it is a finite resource, not as a fuel! We are NOT the last generation yet. If we have to walk to work, then so be it... but I doubt it will truly ever come to that. We are a resourceful people who have simply been HOODWINKED into believing that there are no other alternatives.

RickWorth (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes indeed. HOODWINKED & BAMBOOZLED.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank You Water Guardians!

"After measure P qualified for the ballot, the unemployment rate in Santa Barbara County jumped, according to the State Employment Development Department, from 5.4% in June to 6% in July."

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

False causality. The oil shills are really reaching and spamming their logically flawed arguments.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

July was an interesting month for Santa Barbara County, 350.org’s Water Guardians saw their Measure P qualify for the ballot followed by a significant uptick in unemployment. According to the State Employment Development Department, unemployment jumped from 5.4% in June to 6% in July, resulting in a loss of 4,000 jobs. The majority of job losses were in the civil service sector. Allergen’s Goleta location also announced its closing along with the loss of 300 jobs to the county.

Its all good right? SMALLER CARBON FOOTPRINTS???

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 21, 2014 at 9:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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