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Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital

Paul Wellman

Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital


Cottage Employees Required to Get Flu Shot or Wear Mask for Five Months

New Rule Questioned by Some Staff Members


Thursday, November 14, 2013
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As of November 1, all Cottage Health System employees are required to get a flu shot or wear a surgical mask for five months. The new rule — effective during the defined flu season that ends March 31 and made mandatory for all staff members this year after it was imposed on Cottage doctors in 2012 — is meant to “better protect patients from the risks associated with spread of influenza,” said Cottage spokesperson Maria Zate.

Workers can be contagious with the virus one to two days before they have any symptoms or realize they are sick, she said, explaining flu outbreaks within hospitals have been linked to low vaccination rates among health-care providers. “Flu is of particular concern in regard to how it affects the young, elderly, pregnant women, and immune-compromised,” Zate said.

Last year, Cottage had a 69 percent vaccination rate among its employees. As of November 7 this year, it has jumped to 91 percent. While the county has not created any shot/mask rules of its own, the Public Health Department has issued letters during the last two years “highly recommending” any unvaccinated workers wear masks, said spokesperson Susan Klein-Rothschild.

The Los Angeles County Public Health Department recently made flu shots mandatory, Zate noted, “and hospitals in our region have adopted similar policies to protect our community.” Over at Sansum Clinic, employees aren’t required to get the shot but are asked to fill out a declination form so administrators can understand why they are refusing “as there may be valid clinical reasons why they are unable to get vaccinated,” explained Dr. Marjorie Newman, Sansum’s assistant medical director. The feedback is also used to figure out how to encourage participation. “Although many hospitals have taken a hard line on this issue by mandating 100 percent compliance,” Newman said, “ambulatory/outpatient health-care facilities have taken a more lenient approach by encouraging all staff to get vaccinated but not mandating it — at least not yet.”

While the new rule has been accepted by the majority of Cottage’s staff, at least a few of its workers have expressed concern about the mandate. Two of them contacted The Santa Barbara Independent last week. One said the flu shots contain thermosal and formaldehyde. “I don’t want that in my body,” they said. The staff members wished to remain anonymous for fear of losing their jobs.

According to a recent ABC News article, 150 health-care workers in 26 states represented by attorney Alan Phillips fought mandatory vaccination policies last year. Phillips argued the rules violate civil rights and suggested the masks could be interpreted as punitive or coercive.

Comments

Independent Discussion Guidelines

Anyone wonder why flu shot usage is low among health care workers?

Maybe because these people know the risk vs reward ratio of flu shots.

As a healthcare worker myself I would not even consider putting the crap they preserve these shots with into my body.

To bad for those at Cottage.........either support the pharmaceutical companies agenda or wear a scarlet (letter) mask.

billd (anonymous profile)
November 14, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As a healthcare worker, you should understand the principles of evidence-based practice, and get your flu shot.

The actual, documented risk associated with not getting your vaccines far outweighs the miniscule and largely imagined risk associated with the vaccines themselves.

I'm glad the hospital is making them wear masks... if I or a loved one end up in there, it helps identify the doctors, nurses, etc I don't want.

Sothep (anonymous profile)
November 14, 2013 at 10:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with most of what Sothep has to write until the last line. This proves bilid's assertion that the mask indeed becomes the scarlet (letter) mask. Just because someone didn't get a flu shot you are willing to base all future medical needs of a loved one on this?

sharpen123 (anonymous profile)
November 14, 2013 at 10:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As a First Responder during the Bush era, I was assigned a respirator mask for NBC Attacks at NRO, HLS, NGA and now at DIA. I wore a surgical mask during the Winter months at both NGA and DIA due to the Overseas TDY's that come back with all kinds of foreign Flues that you can only get from overseas travel, last year I was down for two weeks with an Asian Flu which you could only get if you visited China Prime, sometimes a mask worn around others is the way to stay healthy; people are dirty!

dou4now (anonymous profile)
November 15, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Can anyone have failed to notice the increasing desperation of the entities that produce these dangerous substances?: they are now heavily promoting them for everyone, not, as was done for many years, simply for certain subsets of the population.

According to the New England Journal of Medicine, up to 80% of the transnational pharmaceutical corporations heavily promoting these dangerous products are criminal organizations ( http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/... ), and have been repeatedly found guilty of felony crimes, most related to suppressing safety information on their products.

The USA CDC openly admits that vaccines contain a toxic cocktail of metals and synthetic chemicals that are known to cause neurological damage.

Ingredients can include aluminum, mercury, MSG, and formaldehyde. This industrial filth, injected directly into one's bloodstream, bypassing the body's defenses, suppresses the immune system, which can increase, rather than decrease, the chances of getting the flu.

This article...

‘5 Reasons Why I’ll Never Get a Flu Shot’

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/01/5...

…lists 18 ingredients of a typical flu shot with information about the potential dangers of these toxins, and provides documentation for the statement:

“In actuality, the flu shot prevents the flu in only 1.5 out of 100 adults. You can wade through the abstract at The Lancet here.”

At our latitude, even as late as autumn and early winter, about 20 minutes per day exposing about 30% of one's skin to the sun produces sufficient Vitamin D to significantly reduce the chance of experiencing the flu. I've arranged the Vitamin D articles, the final three in the next comment, in logical order: why Vitamin D is important; why you're probably not getting enough; how to make sure that you are getting enough.

…REFERENCES SUPPORTING THIS COMMENT ARE IN NEXT COMMENT...

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 15, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

…CONCLUSION OF COMMENT ABOVE...

The Shocking Lack of Evidence Supporting Flu Vaccines
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/shoc...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johns Hopkins Scientist Blasts CDC for Pushing Flu Shot
http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-N...

"Federal health authorities vastly overstate the benefits of the flu shot and, for most healthy people, vaccination is unnecessary at best and potentially risky at worst..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Despite Thimerosal (Mercury) Ban Imposed By The FDA, 60 Percent of All Flu Vaccines Still Contain This Deadly Neurotoxin
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/10/01...

"...The FDA now supports thimerosal in up to 60 percent of flu vaccines, many which are approved for children..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Courts Rule MMR & Thimerosal Containing Vaccines Caused Autism & Brain Damage
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2...

"Dr. Hooker, PhD, PE says that the recent U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study on vaccines and autism is “perhaps the most flawed and disingenuous study” he has ever encountered…

"…The truth is, there have been several court cases where families have been granted damage pay-outs due to what vaccines and their ingredients have done to their children. The cases are directly linked to autism and brain damage… "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dr. Michael Holick on Vitamin D and its Health-Promoting Properties
http://drbenkim.com/dr-michael-holick...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Vitamin D – Why You are Probably NOT Getting Enough…' (Dr. Mark Hyman)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark...

"…Vitamin D also helps prevent the flu and colds and infections. In an observational study of Finnish soldiers, those with 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels higher than 16 ng/mL (40 nmol/L) had fewer respiratory infections than those with lower levels.(v) More recently, in a double-blind randomized controlled trial involving school girls, supplementation with 1200 IU/d of vitamin D3 during the wintertime significantly reduced influenza A infections…"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'How To Make Sure That You Are Getting Enough Vitamin D For Your Best Health' (Dr. Ben Kim)
http://drbenkim.com/vitamin-d-facts.htm

"…There's a growing mountain of evidence that indicates that having enough vitamin D in your body is essential to reducing your risk of every disease that we know of.…[instructions:] simply google "latitude of the name of your city." Once you have the latitude of your city…"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 15, 2013 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sothep wrote:
"...I'm glad the hospital is making them wear masks... if I or a loved one end up in there, it helps identify the doctors, nurses, etc I don't want..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why Do Doctors Push Vaccines?
Janet Levatin, MD
http://tenpennyimc.com/2011/12/24/why...

"…Even if they are not fans of vaccines, many doctors give vaccines out of fear. They do not want to question authority or challenge professional organizations and licensing bodies, such as state medical boards.

"From the very beginning of medical education, bright, aspiring medical students, interns and residents are taught to do as they are told, follow orders and not confront the status quo.

"Doctors-in-training who challenge the system or dare to think independently are often punished with more work or publicly humiliated in front of their peers. Early on, they get the message they better tow the party line if they want to survive.

"Later, when in their individual practices, doctors who buck the system and don’t vaccinate, or vaccinate less aggressively, often suffer penalties such as losing hospital privileges, being dropped from insurance company rosters or being ostracized by their peers…"

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 15, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

" ... As a healthcare worker myself ........either support the pharmaceutical companies agenda or wear a scarlet (letter) mask."
-- billd

Scarlet mask? That seems like an unprofessional attitude.

Where I work, I have to don PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) in certain areas. I may look silly in it, but it's for my own good so I don't worry about it.

In your case, its not just for your protection, but for the protection of patients around you as well.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
November 15, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EastBeach wrote:
"...In your case, its not just for your protection, but for the protection of patients around you as well."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No Value in Any Influenza Vaccine: Cochrane Collaboration Study
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012...

Excerpts:

"A remarkable study published in the Cochrane Library found no evidence of benefit for influenza vaccinations. It’s also damns the quality of flu vaccine studies by saying that the vast majority of trials were inadequate. The authors stated that the only ones showing benefit were industry-funded…

"The study, 'Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults,' is damning of the entire pharmaceutical industry and its minions: the drug testing industry and the medical system that both relies on and promotes them.

"They found no evidence that vaccination prevents viral transmission in healthy adults! (There goes the whole herd immunity argument!)...

" … and one more thing: They found cases of severe harm caused by the vaccines, in spite of inadequate reporting of adverse effects…

"The question that must be asked is: How can influenza vaccinations be justified when there is virtually no benefit — not even the oft-cited dubious herd-immunity — and cases of severe harm are documented, in spite of disgustingly limited reporting of adverse effects?

"It is long past time to end the travesty of jabbing adults and children without a shred of evidence showing benefit in spite of trying to find it, and with evidence of crippling harm, in spite of trying to mask it."

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 15, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@JohnTieber, re-read my post (if you didn't the first time) and you'll see I was addressing the issue of "mask as scarlet letter", not anything related to vaccines.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Better to have a scarlet letter than scarlet fever.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And..."you can right away at letter A when the people start to move" -Stevie Wonder- (From the song Sir Duke)

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EastBeach wrote:
"@JohnTieber, re-read my post (if you didn't the first time) and you'll see I was addressing the issue of "mask as scarlet letter", not anything related to vaccines."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Either your concluding sentence, "In your case, its not just for your protection, but for the protection of patients around you as well." is very poorly written, or YOU need to reread MY comment at November 15, 2013 at 9:52 a.m. — or at least these two excerpts from my comment:

"...They found no evidence that vaccination prevents viral transmission in healthy adults! (There goes the whole herd immunity argument!)...

"...there is virtually no benefit — not even the oft-cited dubious herd-immunity..."

I.e. implicit in your assertion: "In your case, its not just for your protection, but for the protection of patients around you as well..." is that a flu vaccination WILL prevent viral transmission to others, and thus the reason for forcing those health care workers who refuse these treatments to wear a mask INSTEAD.

But that assertion is incorrect: since a flu vaccination DOES NOT prevent viral transmission, then Cottage Health System's mask policy is not based on sound medical science; rather, perhaps "incentivized" by funding from the pharmaceutical lobby, the masks are being used to punish, shame, or ostracize those who would rather not inject industrial filth produced by criminal corporations directly into their bloodstreams.

Because, were that not the case, the mask policy would apply to everyone, not just those sufficiently knowledgeable to refuse vaccines.

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excerpts below are from an RN letter to her hospital, which was successful in overcoming that hospital's vaccination mandate. Health care workers facing similar assaults on their rights might find it useful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Healthcare Workers: How to Refuse Mandatory Vaccines and Not Get Fired
http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2012/02...

"I believe that vaccination is an invasive medical procedure and based on the above, is an experimental procedure. While I support the hospital’s desire to maintain safety for both patients and staff, I cannot support the use of mandatory vaccinations to achieve this goal. The mandatory administration of this is in direct violation of the Nuremberg Code which states in article 1 that consent should be voluntary and allow for “free power of choice without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of  constraint or coercion.”

"Medical research indicates that the efficacy of the influenza vaccination is grossly exaggerated (1).

 "The British Medical Journal has questioned the validity of studies claiming efficacy and stated that “evidence from systemic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured.” (2)

 "Another journal has proven influenza vaccinations have not changed the amount of doctor visits or hospitalizations in children (3,4,5), and another shows that vaccinations have not impacted the mortality rate of the elderly population. (6,7)

 "There is also a lack of supporting evidence to show that vaccinating healthcare workers prevents influenza transmission. (8)

 "I believe that these vaccinations are providing a false sense of security and therefore putting our patients at risk. 

" An even greater risk exists for those that receive the vaccination. The CDC lists the following as being found in the influenza vaccination: Neomycin, Polymyxin B, formaldehyde or formalin,  thimerosal, embryonated chicken eggs, egg albumin, gelatin, Gentamycin, Polyoxyethylene 9-10 Nonyl Phenol (Triton N-101, Octoxynol 9), chick kidney cells and Taurodeoxychoalate. (9)

 "Many of these are known carcinogens and detergents that have unknown effects on the human body. Chronic over exposure to antibiotics has also proven to be detrimental to overall health. (10)"

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 8:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I agree with most of what Sothep has to write until the last line. This proves bilid's assertion that the mask indeed becomes the scarlet (letter) mask. Just because someone didn't get a flu shot you are willing to base all future medical needs of a loved one on this? " - sharpen123

Don't read anything I write too literally; that last line was intended to provoke a response, which it certainly has.

That said, I do stand behind the basic idea therein - modern medicine is ever-changing, and is increasingly successful because of evidence-based over anecdotal practices. The refusal by a clinician to follow what evidence-based practice indicates makes the quality of care that clinician provides suspect.

Does it automatically mean she's a bad doctor? No, of course not, but it does raise an eyebrow. If a traffic cop didn't know the speed limits in his beat, it doesn't mean he's a bad cop, but it should make you question his ability to accurately enforce other laws.

Sothep (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sothep wrote:
"...Does it automatically mean she's a bad doctor?..."

Of course anyone lucky enough to have a trusted practitioner who has time to keep up with modern medical science might seek his or her advice on this issue. It seems reasonable to assume that many practitioners care about their patients — even MDs still practicing traditional western medicine, now the third leading cause of death in the USA ( http://silver.neep.wisc.edu/~lakes/ia... ).

But one might want to be aware of reasons why a practitioner might promote vaccines, sometimes vigorously, ignoring sound medical science:

Why Do Doctors Push Vaccines?
Janet Levatin, MD
http://tenpennyimc.com/2011/12/24/why...

• doctors are only taught basic theories about how vaccines work

• the majority robotically follow, never questioning, the directives

• pediatricians can earn a significant percentage of their income from vaccination

• physicians who are employees of a hospital system may have fee quotas to meet

• many vaccines are expensive …and some have very short expiration dates; they need to be administered for costs to be recouped

• adding a shot, or shots, to a routine office visit generates more revenue

• they do not want to question authority or challenge professional organizations and licensing bodies

• those who buck the system and don’t vaccinate, or vaccinate less aggressively, often suffer penalties such as losing hospital privileges, being dropped from insurance company rosters or being ostracized by their peers

~~~~

Regardless of a practitioner's advice, before one agrees to have a cocktail of industrial waste, cancer viruses, heavy metals, and/or GMO insect proteins and dog kidney cells injected directly into one's bloodstream, bypassing one's immune system — in order to attain a 0% to 1.5% chance of avoiding what for most people — even those with unhealthy lifestyles — might be three to five days of discomfort — perhaps one might consider requesting from one's practitioner:

(1) the name of the producer of the product, and whether that producer is a criminal organization and, if so, whether that producer has been found guilty of felony crimes such as suppressing safety information about its products, or is currently operating under a corporate integrity agreement imposed by a government

(2) a FULL ingredients list, as well as known side effects and dangers of each ingredient

(3) whether any of those ingredients are cancer viruses, industrial filth, or genetically-modified (GMO) proteins derived from insect cells, as in Flublok, or GMO proteins derived from dog kidney cells, as in Flucelvax

(4) a signed statement providing the practitioner's best estimate of the probability that one will suffer permanent impairment or death from the product

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 16, 2013 at 11:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, JohnTieber, I'll bite. Understand that any chance of convincing anyone with your fear-mongering lost all credibility with this gem:

"traditional western medicine, now the third leading cause of death in the USA ( http://silver.neep.wisc.edu/~lakes/ia... )."

Don't get me wrong, our health system is in serious need of overhaul, and for-profit insurance and pharmaceutical companies are a major cause of our woes, but come on. And on a side note, don't quote editorials as scientific evidence, it just makes you look silly.

But for the sake of discussion, let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and say it's all a sham by 'big pharm' to make money. It would be illogical, then, for them to fill the vaccines with a "cocktail of industrial waste, cancer viruses, heavy metals, and/or GMO insect proteins and dog kidney cells". One, if it's only for profit, why not a cheaper placebo formula? Second, why use harmful toxins and risk injury to patients, risking expensive lawsuits? Third, how could they get such an allegedly useless yet toxic substance past the FDA? And you can't say bribes and lobbyists, because if it were that easy, we'd be inundated with new, expensive medications all the time.

Sothep (anonymous profile)
November 17, 2013 at 3:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sothep:

Clearly I've been remiss by not providing live links to credible sources that substantiate all of my assertions.

I'll try to do better.

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 17, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

From the article (above):
"...Phillips argued the rules violate civil rights and suggested the masks could be interpreted as punitive or coercive."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Healthcare workers fighting vaccine mandate assaults on their civil rights or punitive measures for vaccine refusal might find this article useful:

Forced Flu Vaccination of Healthcare Workers Threatens Health and Liberty
http://vran.org/in-the-news/forced-fl...

Excerpts:

"The B.C. Civil Liberties Union promises to study the situation “very intently”. “It’s a very draconian step to mandate a medical intervention and in order to justify that, the benefits have to be crystal clear and [of] a very high standard”, said spokesperson Michael Vonn in a recent Vancouver Sun article…

"Numerous reviews of the medical literature show there is a glaring absence of real benefit from yearly flu vaccines...Health officials however, prefer to turn a blind eye to compelling evidence that flu shots are essentially worthless.

No Evidence Flu Vaccines Work

"“What troubled us is that [shots] had no effect on laboratory-confirmed influenza,” said Dr. Roger Thomas of the University of Calgary... “What we were looking for is proof that influenza … is decreased. Didn’t find it...

"Another Cochrane review led by renowned influenza specialist Dr. Tom Jefferson evaluated the effect of flu vaccines in multiple studies of over 70,000 healthy adults. They found that, “reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin but there is evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions and spurious notoriety of the studies”...

"Health officials endorsing this draconian policy know full well that the science does NOT support influenza vaccine’s ability to reduce morbidity and mortality in vulnerable populations. Although flu vaccine uptake has increased substantially over the last few decades, it has NOT yielded a parallel reduction in disease burden or death among the elderly."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The right to determine what shall, or shall not, be done with one’s own body, and to be free from non-consensual medical treatment, is a right deeply rooted in our common law. This right underlies the doctrine of informed consent. With very limited exceptions, every person’s body is considered inviolate, and, accordingly, every competent adult has the right to be free from unwanted medical treatment.”

— Ontario Court of Appeal decision 1991, Fleming v. Reid, Charter Challenge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 17, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sad.

Sothep (anonymous profile)
November 18, 2013 at 12:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sothep wrote:
"Sad."

Sothep:

Your one word comment, "Sad" is too cryptic to discern what you are referencing.

It would seem reasonable to speculate that you are referring to the comment immediately preceding yours, but I suspect that is not the case as, based on some of your other comments, I don't believe you agree with the essence of that comment: that, both as a principle of common law, and enshrined in both the US and California constitutions, no competent adult should be coerced to undergo unwanted medical treatments, or punished if he or she resists.

So I wonder if by "sad," you meant "Me sad."

If so, you're probably aware that the same criminal transnational pharmaceutical corporations that produce useless vaccines also produce useless pills for sadness — and, you will be pleased to know, as you indicated at November 17, 2013 at 3:41 a.m. that you consider the FDA credible — these are also approved by the FDA, along with all the other pharmaceutical drugs it approves that kill more than 100,000 U.S. citizens per year ( http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/07/24... ).

Don't be concerned though: like all USA federal agencies, the FDA is there to help us; it's currently working very hard to rid us of free-range, pastured poultry and eggs ( http://www.naturalnews.com/041996_FDA... ) and, of course, walnuts, as it considers them to be drugs ( http://www.realfarmacy.com/walnuts-ar... ).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Total corruption: Drug companies bought their way onto FDA advisory panels
http://www.naturalnews.com/042562_tot...

FDA abandons science with new 'breakthrough therapy' designation for drugs that receive almost no testing
http://www.naturalnews.com/041490_FDA...

The Great Myth of the FDA as Protector of our Health
http://naturalsociety.com/great-myth-...

FDA Rules Against Good, Organic Food with Food Safety Modernization Act
http://naturalsociety.com/food-safety...

Action alert: Just 2 days left to help stop the FDA's regulatory war on small, local farmers
http://www.naturalnews.com/042910_FDA...

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
November 18, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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