Parenting in Public

A perfect example of the self absorbed nitwits that are ruining society. In the past 20 years we've seen self described perfect mothers allowing their kids to run wild in expensive restaurants, traipse about airplanes bothering the other passengers, spending more time on their mobile phones than watching their kids, and generally feeling sorry for their terrible chore called motherhood. In Italy, where there really is a collective mentality, parents do not expect the rest of society to share in their parenting pain and in turn members of society feel comfortable praising AND disciplining kids in public. I can just imagine what this poor victimized dear would say if I firmly told her kid to stop grabbing fruit from a stand and slobbering all over it...

Just the other day an upper middle class white woman was letting her 4yo crawl and roll around the floor of the market, tripping people up ect. The woman was far too self absorbed to even comprehend her surroundings I think.

While I was voting on Tuesday, at the very shaky stand, a woman was voting but not controlling her small child who was rolling on the floor and heavily bumping the legs of my small voting stand...kinda hard to get the black ovals filled properly. Heavens, without my YES on 30 it might've failed!
More seriously, it was easy to stop for a moment, smile down at the small child and look at the mother, who was very alert and already reaching to gather the child back into her arms.
Lacy is correct and many folks, often those without children or whose kids moved on 35 years ago, are irked by the presence of youngsters. It does take a village to raise a child, and I don't imagine Mrs. Selby would do any of the things urgs rails against. I don't know if we would really want strangers disciplining other people's children in public: maybe we have lost the collective idea... too bad if this is true.

Forget compassion for the parent urgently updating their FaceBook status, how about the danger the child could get into? That Blue Light Special could turn into an Amber Alert, and probably does.

To extend my rantette, some friends visiting from Europe last year asked us "when did all of these young parents decide that they were so special?". It was a genuine question and the mommy who wrote this column fits that category to a tee. We raised two kids, without any direct family in the U.S., one is still at home as a young teenager, and never expected anyone else to have to pick up for our excuses for bad parenting.
Last night we were at the Palms and commented about a family sitting next to us how neat, clean, and organized they were and how both parents made sure that their toddlers came first; and how unusual this family was compared to what we normally see. We told them when we left how nice it was to sit next to them to which the father commented "thanks, considering how bad most kids are in public, we appreciate that someone still cares". I'm pretty sure this was not Lacey the Martyr and her husband...

mebbeso, mebbeso....
Working with parents a great deal, I do honestly see lots of both sorts, and clearly the Palms couple are the appropriate model, of course! I'm hoping my spouse and I were like that with our now-living-in Europe son. I hope the above commenters realize that the baby boomer parents and parents after them have shown inordinate care and attention to their young. It's certainly overdone and easy to see it as ridiculous. Yet many of these same parents care amazingly about their kids, would go to any lengths to help them if they could...if they could figure out how, yet many are misguided and need PET and letting their kids go it alone somewhat...in vein of "the virtues of a skinned knee". Balance is needed here.
You guys might like the Paul Tough talk on children and education (and inevitably parenting) coming up this next week (Thurs I think). "Grit" and determination stand out in his talk.

Children are smart. They know when they have a parent over a barrel. They know when they have the tactical advantage, and they will push that advantage mercilessly, even if the only thing at stake is a gum ball or a cheap red plastic barrette. Being willing to walk away from the "negotiations" is a valuable parental tool. I can't imagine a safer environment to leave a child standing empty handed for 10 seconds than Paseo Nuevo mall. When a 4 year old girl gets no bickering response from her mother, but instead sees her turn her back to leave, the wind will rapidly leave the sails of her strong arm tactics.

These toddler strong arm tactics tend to work in public because of the knee jerk intolerance of crabby self important people like this Court Mandated Joke. I cannot believe that anything that took place in the Baby Gap in Paseo Nuevo that day rose to the level of child abuse. Which means this woman is a petty bureaucratic who feels like a big shot by throwing around her little title. The scary thing is that insufferable bullies like this might actually be ruining people's lives for a living. If anyone knows who this court mandated reporter is, they should report her.

As the mother of a bright, strong-willed child (who with consistent firmness and love grew up to be an amazing woman), I am so disappointed in this anonymous thrashing of this young author. How simple it is to sit in judgment! Take out every ill-behaved child's actions out on this mother? I too am a court-mandated reporter and frankly, my reaction to Ms. Selby and her young child would have been one of compassion rather than judgment. I can't count the times I've engaged a tantruming child only to find s/he isn't so brave and brash when an outsider steps in. If only Ms. Jane had behaved thus, all three parties would have had a better day. Next time you're on that airplane, give the parents a break! Play peek-a-boo, break out odd items from your bag to engage the child. Same with the polling place! I'm just thankful that a thoughtful mother is voting! Help out! The world would be a better place and your kindness could evoke the same in others.

"Play peek-a-boo,"
Not interested, haven't been since I was 2.
" break out odd items from your bag to engage the child."
Such as? Are all adults obligated to carry a bag of toys with them every where they go? I was taught not to take toys or candy from strangers.
" Same with the polling place! "
This just illustrates a complete disregard for appropriate behavior in context alone.

@peggyann, my post was sympathetic to Lacy, and if you'd read the second paragraph you would've seen that. Further, I am ALWAYS sympathetic to parents on planes, in buses, on playgrounds, and at polling places! You are a bit shrill, and some of these male posters aren't very sympathetic to young parents. Balance is needed, and mindfulness, as I wrote above.

I'll break out my occasional cigarette for the next child that needs a distraction. "OK kids, smoke em if ya got em".
This "young author" exemplified everything that has changed for the worse about this country since I arrived here; self indulgent, self pitying, overly self important, and whining.
As Americas "Greatest Generation" is dieing out, we instead have Americas "Lamest Generation" taking their place and it does not bode well for the Republic.

I see entitlement, the old lady who feels entitled to judge, those who drive with no patience in their range rovers, those to busy with their selves to help out a future citizen for a minute or two of peek a boo. Pure selfishness on display, even DD thinks its all about him when someone else points out the other commentors.
Yes there are good and bad parenting skills that play out and categorize a parent for us to see in public. This article does not show evidence of a mother as described by 60% of the comments. It does show a callous old hag with nothing better to do than judge like the old guys in the muppet show in the balcony. It takes a village, but it seems like people would rather not be bothered.

you're making little sense, spacey, writing... "even DD thinks its all about him when someone else points out the other commentors" points out the other commentors...what?? I was suggesting balance.

My kids are now teens (and one in fact just voted for the first time), so their "tantrums" are of a different sort, but I certainly remember what it could be like when they were younger and am still sympathetic when I encounter a parent in this situation today. Nope, I would never have expected anyone to carry items, engage in helping me parent or distract my child, but I'm somewhat amazed at the rather clueless, "shrill," prickly-in-tone and multiple comments by some here who clearly are not parents. Does one have to be a "member" of a group to have empathy with its issues? Should I apply the same (lack of ) logic in my daily dealings or even the next time I'm in the voting booth?

Spacey-In Western Europe it does take a village but a mother like this would ostracized for being selfish. As noted, in Italy the village rules also dictate that I can and should discipline your precious little human in order to enforce the standards of the village. Yea, that would really work in the U.S....

Zappa-I'm a member of the parents club, although my youngest is now a junior in high school and I have no sympathy for this lady that apparently feels like being a mother is so hard that she cannot keep up with her duties. Perhaps the excuses being made for mothers like the author are as big a part of the problem and further indicative of how this country has changed from an era of self reliance.
Let's just assume that the author was slighted by a boorish female as described; so traumatic was the interlude that she was compelled to write a vacuous article instead of getting her precious sleep or tending to her special children? Get off of your cell phones, quit asking the rest of us for recognition, stop making excuses and take care of your kids like parents have for millions of years...

The bottom line is there are a lot of meddling do-gooder types that are quick to pass judgement on others and from what I read, Ms. Selby got a bad rap from some busybody type. Child Protective Services might be a good thing, but they too can get out of control. The "I'm a court mandated reporter" line is creepy, there's a lot of the Big Brother element there.

Yea, the whole court mandated reporter thing seemed kind of creepy and Gestapoish...

When a kid interferes with or disturbs the public doing its own public business (dining, voting, shopping, etc.), then just inform the negligent parent of that, sternly and efficiently.

Rude children are not to be tolerated because then the terrorists will have won.

I am a parent and a grandparent. I have seen the times this young mother is facing. Although I do not agree with the response of the lady who confronted her I do blame her for her child's behavior. How is walking away from a screaming child acting like a responsible parent? Has this person ever heard of time out? There are plenty of benches in Paseo use one instead of dragging your screaming kid from store to store. Also why would you take a child you know misbehaves anywhere? If your precious little darling throws tantrums in public do all of us a favor and keep them at home. Tantrums have never been tolerated from my children or grandchildren. The first time a child throws a tantrum is the easiest time to stop all future tantrums. I'm guessing this mother reacted in a way that told the child tantrums were the way to go. The village didn't ask you to breed nor did we say we would help you out if you did. Take care of your kids without expecting anyone to make excuses for you or give you a break. Mothers have been taking care of their children for generations and we certainly haven't expected a village to back us up if our kids were out of control. There is no medal on the way. You are dealing with the direct result of your own actions.

"Rude children are not to be tolerated because then the terrorists will have won." @John_Adams

So true. The consequences will never be the same.

Based on Ms. Selby's account, the "court-mandated reporter" shouldn't have said anything. That woman was probably having a bad day. I'm from New York. People have given me the finger just for the hell of it. Pushed me on the subway and have made all manner of comments on my appearance… and have done so loudly. In NY you get jostled around and bruised (internally and externally) most every day and have to learn to have confidence in yourself and not let other people and their comments get under your skin so much. You couldn't survive otherwise.

My point is: move on. Lacy Selby, you are probably a fine mother. Just have confidence in that fact and move on.

And for the record, if I was in BabyGap that day, I'd play peek-a-boo with the little one, stop and chat, & give you a smile. Don’t the small, nice gestures from strangers make life easier? We should all commiserate in the truth that life is hard for ALL. OF. US. in different ways. Some of us don't have to worry about the next paycheck, or wonder how we will afford Thanksgiving food or presents for the Holidays. Some of us do. Some of us have illness to worry our heads. Some of us have HUGE life problems to contend with and we face our lot with cheer and grace. Some of us have "no" problems to contend with and are still miserable people. Most of us are bumbling through and just hoping that we are doing things right. That's where humanity comes in.

Just be a person.

Lacey,

I was publicly assaulted in a very similar way two weeks ago. I wonder if it's the same nut case. We should compare descriptions of her. If it's the same person I have a way to ID her. This is beyond poor etiquette; it's assault and I would press charges if this person is serially assaulting mothers. The woman who did this to me was utterly hostile and unbalanced such that I was fearful that she might try to follow me -- and her intensity was also fueled by a false claim of authority which I later ascertained was, legalistically, flat out wrong. I've never had any kind of experience like this in my life (and I've been jostled in NYC, traveled all over Europe, Southeast Asia, etc.)! Also, it was obvious she didn't care about my child's well being, which was in no way threatened, but was intent on assaulting a mother in public. This is sick stuff and if it happened to a father at a soccer practice with another male, the father would just deck the guy.

Indy staff can put us in touch if you want to talk and see if it's the same person. I grew up here and I know this is not normal SB behavior toward others.

SB Indy Matchmaking Service

I'll rember to start bringing my fishing pole and bucket of Snickers Bars to Baby Gap at Paseo Nuevo.

Here are some ways to shut off a hostile attack of this nature:

Tell the person she/he is committing assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress, slander (if others are around), and does not know the law. If she/he continues with the hostile behavior ask a store employee to contact mall security or contact law enforcement.

This is assault. Moms should not put up with it because assault inflicts long lasting harm and sets a bad example for our children when it comes to bullies. And to be clear: this is a situation where being civilized is not possible. The person is hostile and is seeking to humiliate and punish in public. You can walk away but sometimes getting away with a small child in tow (in midst of shopping or whatever) takes quite a bit longer than turning on heel. That period of time allows for a prolonged attack on you and by extension, your child.

Pepper spray is a bit extreme, but possibly defendable -- any legal advice on that one?

Alternatively, maybe we mothers should toss out our comfy clothes and start dressing (and training) like Uma in Kill Bill. That might get the point across about a mother's fury if you mess with her and her child.

Once is enough. Don't try that with me again. Ever.

Remember what Uma did to Elle Driver?

Do we need an Uma Take Back the Mall night?

Keep your mother's fury to yourself else I'll have you arrested and your kids taken away.

I like my women like I like my Whiskey, 12 years old and mixed up with Coke.

Hormones, self entitlement, depression, and brain death: perhaps we should ban all mothers with kids under 6 from owning firearms...

It's baffling how off point some of these comments are, but perhaps it's only surprising to those of us who don't blog regularly. Maybe the commenters got the point, but chose to use the article as an excuse to vent hostility against someone they don't know, but are quick to stereotype - an historically ignorant and dangerous thing to do. I was raised by a baby boomer mother who taught us self reliance and I do wonder about today's generation of helicopter-parented children, but that has nothing to do with the article at hand. Let me reiterate my original point. Strangers policing and bullying good mothers interfering with no one IS creepy and wrong. Even the thickest-skinned of mothers would be bothered by these entitled and hostile donogoods. We are engaged and in control and don't expect help or entertainment (but certainly appreciate when it happens) and especially do not want self righteous strangers running interference, as Jane Donogood did when she appeared out of nowhere during the fourth quarter of an appropriately-handled conflict, which was quiet (although assumed disruptive) and taken out of the store so as NOT to interfere with anyone's shopping experience. If someone disagrees with the way they see someone disciplining their own child and there is nothing even remotely resembling abuse, "tough titties" as my grandmother would have said. When people observe a parenting situation they feel entitled and comfortable with knee-jerk policing, I ask they pause a moment and if they do decide to confront someone they really should gather some facts before threatening to report them to a government agency. That's the village part of the request and yes, this is a nicer town because of the willingness of the majority to be kind. Strangers in these scenarios scare the child, caring not an inkling for them, and are fueled by the case-in-point attitudes represented here. Don't take our children out in public if they have ever gotten upset in public? Ridiculous. I love the comic relief in the comment about how people judge like the old guys in the balcony on the muppets show - exactly!

It's baffling how come you see these comments as off point, but no thread is complete without a scold.
It's this simple: take care of your kid or have your kid taken away.

Ms. Selby, I suspect your reasoned and reasonable explanation and argument will whiz by many, as shown by the the jerk of Ken_Volok's knee.

Reasonable and responsible parents keep track of their children and teach them socially appropriate behavior. Who will Ms. Selby blame God forbid her child get into an accident or worse?

Mr. Volok doesn't have children. This explains a lot.

Yeah so? I don't own a cobra either but I know enough not to let one slither unattended down State St.
What exactly did you hope to accomplish with this missive other than to draw attention to yourself and your controversial parenting skills?

KV: I'm not sure if you're trying to bait this person just to get a rise out of her, but your seeming animosity is off-putting to say the least. Okay, you don't have, and maybe don't like, children. That's definitely your prerogative. My children are no longer small and, yes, I did keep track of them and taught them socially appropriate behavior. That being said, there were times they acted up in public and there were times, one memorable one at the Earthling,
when a busybody-type questioned my parenting skills and offered unwanted suggestions. It happens and it's not fun.
Each of us has issues and agendas many of which differ or are not part of everyone's personal or immediate relevance.
I believe that in previous posts you've expressed a number of yours. If one of these had no immediate connection to my own daily existence or outlook, would you expect such a hostile response? I'm not advocating for the "let's all get along" cliché nor touting the preeminence or privilege of parenthood in any way , but there is something to the idea of a "lived experience" (in this situation) that you're unable or unwilling to get.

I guess she's made herself the poster Mom for every irresponsible parent I've encountered. Parents aren't Gods, children aren't Angels. Parents should be licensed. Save the pop psychology.
Again, the writer seems to think this is a newsworthy issue so I'm trying to ascertain why.

Judging by the self absorbed tirade she assaulted me with through email she believes this is very big news. Her child is an angel and we are all very bad people for not coddling her and her child. Her incoherant rants are pretty off the chart. Not saying she doesn't have a right to her opinion but she needs to realize so do the rest of us. Including the woman who believed she was mistreating her child. BTW to those saying they should call the police or attack people at the mall, are you serious?? Where in the world do you people come from? Perhaps we should ban women and their children from malls and restaurants until the hormones are back under control. I really do not remember having these entitlement issues when I was a young mother. Maybe it is something new they are putting in the bottled water.

"Parents aren't Gods, children aren't Angels. Parents should be licensed. " @Ken_Volok

This is the closest anyone's come to inadvertently writing a haiku in this thread.

Thanks Kingprawn for enhancing what levity exists here.

@MSSB,
I think it all stems from this cultural obsession with "youth/being young" and irrational fear of aging. Thus if the parent is perpetually an adolescent, the parent couldn't possibly be at fault.

Child throwing tantrum
Consumers show displeasure
Trip to Yogurtland?

Ms Selby, as a parent, you are going to have to develop a thicker skin......a lot thicker.

As for writing about it......well, maybe your skin can build up some scar tissue.

My pleasure @KV.

Nice one @EastBeach.

Whether or not Ms. Selby is self-absorbed--and I don't see where she is acting self-absorbed, the real issue is the busybody Nanny State types the want to run everybody else's lives.

It was the well-respected Indy, not the writer, that decided the article was "newsworthy" and a voice that should be heard. It is through the constructive, on-point responses, such as the one from Mr. Clausen above, that we can learn and make any progress on this issue of humanity.

By constructive and on point you mean agreeing with you.

Bill I was referring to her email rants she felt she needed to send to defend her position rather than doing it here like normal posters. I have to agree others should mind their own business and I would not insert myself into any situation between a mother and child be it positive or negative. I don't want to hear other people's children scream nor do I want to entertain them to keep them happy. I am not sure what is so wrong with that.

She's special.

The initial "posters" were anything but "normal." The hostile climate didn't welcome constructive dialogue.

Since everyone has the option to respond directly on this site, an email was sent to "mssb" in the hope of having a rational conversation and making an appeal to the mother and grandmother within. Sadly, the result was profanity, stereotyping and now slander.

If mssb calls a remarkably polite email, that was the direct response to her personal attack, an "assault," what would she call a terminator-reminiscent stranger claiming to be a court mandated reporter, who blocks the path of a conscientious mother with her child in tow and threatens her with government intervention because she doesn't like her parenting style?

The point is this is wrong and potentially harmful. We all get she doesn't agree, so why doesn't she move on and save any further commentary for when one of the tangential topics about which she and the others insist upon ranting are actually the topic; however, it might be awhile before we see something in print on psyche-altering drinking water.

Good grief, ever stop to consider that you're the abnormal one Ms. Selby? Psyche-altering drinking water?
Of all the parents I know, not one has been publicly reprimanded like you have for their parenting "skills". I won't be surprised if you wind up on a reality show.

MSSB, maybe you can share that email here with us.

"The hostile climate didn't welcome constructive dialogue."@lacyselby

Is this your first experience with the internet?

"An email was sent...in the hope of having a rational conversation." @lacyselby

There's your first mistake. You engaged. Again, is this your first time on the web?

"why doesn't she move on...?"@lacyselby

Why don't you? Who cares what anyone thinks? What am I saying? You do. This response is at the bottom of a column about what someone else thought about your parenting. Let it go. You know if you're a good parent. Nothing anyone says here should matter.

Re "Psyche-altering drinking water." I think this was in reference to the older comment made by MSSB.

As I noted earlier, I was once "reprimanded" by a busybody many years ago when I was dealing with one of my kids having a tantrum, so I don't think it's a unique situation. I'm a dad, not a mom, FWIW. I still think that many of you are being far too harsh with her. Of course it's not a "news" story, but one of those slice-of-life things that the Indy and many other publications feature regularly. I think the lack of civility in some comments here is uncalled for. There seems to be some other dynamic at work. Yeah, it's the Internet, but it doesn't _have_ to be overtly hostile. I do agree that the author should disengage at this point. Nothing further is likely to be served in continuing this conversation.

If my message has a positive influence on just one person, which I know it has, the time here was well spent. Agreed, it is pointless to engage with the K. Voldemorts of the world, which is why I have avoided doing so, but it is a good safety reminder they exist.