Confusing? Yes. Closer to trial? Definitely not.
The city’s pursuit of a gang injunction took a turn toward the complex Monday afternoon after defense counsel for several defendants — as they have in previous hearings — brought up concerns on the amount, and type, of juvenile information contained in the documents provided by the city. The attorneys are not only concerned about the juvenile information on their clients — there are 30 individual defendants named in the injunction, along with the entire Eastside and Westside gangs — but also the juvenile information of more than 100 other people named in evidence the city has provided to the defense. The lawyers say this information is protected by state law and cannot be used in the case against their clients.
The injunction would prevent gang members from associating in specific “safe” zones in the city, committing crimes in these areas, and wearing certain types of gang-affiliated clothing. Critics of the proposed injunction question whether Santa Barbara — which has seen gang crime drop in recent years — really needs a gang injunction and also say the filing unfairly targets the youth. Violent crime is the lowest it’s been in 26 years, according to police, and there were no homicides in Santa Barbara in 2011.
The City Attorney and District Attorney’s Office, using information gathered by surveillance and patrol over years, are bolstering their allegation that there are gangs in Santa Barbara that are a nuisance to the public. Much of this intel includes interactions with juveniles. Officials argue the information they are using is not protected under the Welfare and Institutions Code because its language is narrowly written to only include actual juvenile court case files. “Police officers’ observations would be covered by [the code],” Chief Assistant DA Hilary Dozer said.
But defense counsel say that judges have interpreted and extended the code’s language to protect information beyond what might be included in some dusty case file, and the code keeps confidential all brushes with the law a person might have had as a juvenile. “If they want to disclose that information,” said defense attorney Tara Haaland-Ford, “they have to follow the proper procedures.” That means that experts — in this case, Santa Barbara police officers specializing in gang crime — wouldn’t be able to talk on the witness stand or in court documents about events they saw and interactions they had with offenders who were juveniles at the time.
This information has already been passed out to defense counsel, as well as defendants representing themselves. Some defense attorneys say this could be arming potentially dangerous people with information on acts committed by members of opposing gangs. One attorney called it “totally reckless and unlawful” for the city to release the information.
In February the matter will head back to Judge Colleen Sterne, who will decide if the city can move forward with its case or instead be required to petition the juvenile court to unseal the records, a decision that could send the civil case in several different directions. Another potential solution is to issue a protective order limiting the sets of eyes that can see the files.
If the judge rules against the city, the court could order the information already distributed destroyed or returned. The city would then petition the juvenile court — on a case-by-case basis for all 100-plus juveniles named — to release the juvenile information, a process that would likely involve dozens and dozens of hearings.
But confidentiality has long been a staple of the juvenile court system. The juvenile court judge would have to rule that the price of the person’s confidentiality is outweighed by other interests in unsealing that person’s record. It could very well be the case with many of the juveniles named that they are long removed from the behavior of their younger years, and keeping the file confidential would be in that person’s best interest. “These are innocent people who have moved on,” said defense attorney Bill Makler.
That would lead to less evidence available to prove the city’s case. Multiply that by more than 100, and the city may have a big problem. If the juvenile court judge withholds a lot of the information, then the question for the city is whether it would have enough evidence — notwithstanding its setback — to still prove the case.
So there’s a lot to be settled. What is settled is that the case will not go to trial in March as it was originally scheduled.



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I'm sire we would all like mistakes we made as teenagers to follow us thru life as a stigma instead of a lesson learned.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Who said anything about lesson "learned", Ken? That's exactly the problem - these guys don't learn! But they do figure out that there are quite a few folks in SB who will continue to coddle and make excuses for them if they play their cards right.
Scooter (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Uhmm, there is a big difference between ding dong ditch and stabbing someone.
bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
aye homes they got a picture of my cousins chest in the independent. yeah he's in a gang in Santa Barbara. check it out aye. lol. ps i hope that is a male.
tacobellmike (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's the thing: If the past continues to the present then it is an indication that it will go into the future. Once a thug, ALWAYS A THUG.
I grew up w/ idiots like this & while they may find Jesus, mellow out or whatever, they still have the will to go back to the thuglife.
The BIGGEST determinant of "past actions" & how they can carry into the future is maliciousness versus mischief. What gang members do IS MALICIOUS.
Terrorization, threats, coercion & violence directed @ innocent people, these are all malicious acts inherent to gang members.
The thing about the gang Injunction is that is you, as a gang vermin, have straighted up & changed your ways then you've got nothing to worry about, you can be removed from it as long as you stay on the straight & narrow.
But as it stands, these asshats want society to look the other way & give them a free pass when in all reality they gotta be watched.
The part I don't get is why certain people find it necessary to defend these d-nozzles from what they deserve :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Remember folks - police corruption only applies to drunk white guys with nice cars and fancy lawyers. It never, EVER applies to the Latino community.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Orale, ETR, take it from a Latino, you're FINALLY catching on ese :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@hank: "Orale, ETR, take it from a Latino, you're FINALLY catching on ese"
Did you just have a stroke?
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ETR: "Did you just have a stroke?"
Of genious? Why yes, of course. Did you just have a cow? MOOO! :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 26, 2012 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What I feel safe knowing is that a felon--even if they straighten out--can never vote again in a federal election. If these guys get to vote, the country will turn over to corrupt politicians.
"Stroke of genius"--counterpunch of the week.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 2:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Indeed KV. Thank goodness we have defense attorneys making every attempt to not track assault, drug dealing, extortion, you name it with the gangbangers. What a typical cross section of the average teenager...
"Hank delivers a shot to the head and his under matched foe is retired by TKO"
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 6:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@hank: "Of genious?"
Hey genius, you misspelled genius.
@italiansurg: "Thank goodness we have defense attorneys making every attempt to not track assault, drug dealing, extortion, you name it with the gangbangers."
Thanks goodness we have people who understand the law and the Constitution better than you.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I like how the so-called "law and order" advocates resort to violent imagery to illustrate this debate. Pathetic, anonymous, not worth the time.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@Ken_Volok: "I like how the so-called "law and order" advocates resort to violent imagery to illustrate this debate."
Even more revealing is the "victory" they see in hank's barely-coherent ramblings. It's like he's a Rorschach test for right-wing lunacy.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A couple of jokes using boxing vernacular and somebody gets all sad. Boo hoo. I guess the comment about Hank having a stroke didn't hurt your feelings?
Scooter (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As long as we are holding the guilty acountable, there is a previous presidential administration guilty of war crimes that needs jailling. Oh, and some corporate execs on Wall St. too.
Still waiting.
spacey (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ETR: "Even more revealing is the "victory" they see in hank's barely-coherent ramblings. It's like he's a Rorschach test for right-wing lunacy."
HAHAHA! Incoherent. Have heard many "progressive" attempts @ an insult, but this 1 takes the caca cake.
Seems like you're lacking O2 & ataxia is setting in. Must be global warming from all the progressive hot air you proudly exude bright guy/gal :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hank-They're just punch drunk from too many direct shots to the head; as good an explanation as any other for "Progressive Thinking". Cumulative effects of TBI's will do just that...
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@italiansurg: "They're just punch drunk from too many direct shots to the head; as good an explanation as any other for "Progressive Thinking"'
Actually, I'm just getting dizzy from watching you and hank chase each others' tails. I do like how you continually use the word "Progressive" while demonstrating no concept as to its meaning. Should we start calling your views "Regressive Thinking"?
@hank: "Seems like you're lacking O2 & ataxia is setting in. Must be global warming from all the progressive hot air you proudly exude bright guy/gal."
Or perhaps I just feel embarrassed for people who lack the common sense to know when they are embarrassing themselves. But keep posting hank, I get a kick out of watching you butcher the English language.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nope, you're just embarassed like any "progressive" should be, period.
By the way, nice closet racist comment about my supposed butchering the Eglish language.
Must be because you "progressives" feel us Latinos can't speek Enguish qurekly. How typically "progressive" of you, keep up the great work Herr Goering :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A gang injunction is the best way to help get these juveniles to have a chance to get out of trouble or go to the big house. These juveniles have strikes on their records. If they continue, then their juvenile record should not be sealed and their strikes applied when they commit one as an adult. So sad bye, bye . . .
jw (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What really offends me is that I contributed this great boxing analogy and nobody has honored me for it so as a result, I leave this message http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaPysX...
billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 7:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I did honor it, I summarized the smack down. Did you want a metaphor like a boxing ring or a jujitsu mat so the gang banger can tap out? Life doesn’t work like that for the victims.
jw (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, I have been commenting here for awhile and I have agreed on many subjects with Hank and Bill (not that I don't completely do now), but this is one subject that hits close to home for me. I am, or was one of those kids, and you probably read about me in the news. I was portrayed as a scourge to the streets of Santa Barbara, and in a ways I was. I ruined my life, by the decisions I made, and there was no coming back from those decisions. Even though, I have changed and I am not like you say Hank "once a thug, always a thug", to society I am. I am a throw away because of my past, my gang past. Of things that I committed in my teens. It has always been frustrating to me to see child molestors and violent sexual predators get breaks over ex-members, because I know they cannot be rehabilitated. The majority of gang members cannot be rehabilitated either, I know, I have seen it firsthand, but there are some that can,and there are many that can be saved if we cared to save them. We can take that hard stance that we have taken before, but the reality is that we only make this problem worse by pushing people harder or kicking them while they are down. As a cuban, Hank, you should know the communist movement was not an overnight thing but something that happen from years of the better off taking advantage of the less fortunate. All you need is to throw a few charismatic, smart individuals, and you have yourself a big problem. This not to say that gangs are the same as the communist movement, but there are similarities in the groups, and the more we push, the more they stick together. Why? Because they have nothing else. All these kids want is acceptance, love, respect. Again, there are a few that are just psychopaths, but not all of them are like that. Alot of these kids are lost sheep, and they need a stern but caring hand to bring them back in. Believe it or not, they eat like we do, sleep like we do, hurt like we do, and even pop a squat in the bathroom when need be like we do. I know because I have been there and done that.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 27, 2012 at 10:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I did honor it, I summarized the smack down. Did you want a metaphor like a boxing ring or a jujitsu mat so the gang banger can tap out? Life doesn’t work like that for the victims. "
I want your worship and adoration...or a free pizza.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 1:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Now...on a serious note.
In response to AZ2SB's post I agree that the difference between gangbangers and child molesters is that the gangbangers are products of their environment and molesters are pre-programmed to be crazy.
One thing I feel VERY strongly about: If you've paid your debt to society, you get reinstated. That's why I made the ridiculous comment about feeling safe knowing convicted felons can't vote. How is allowing someone who has served their time the right to vote a threat to society?
Obviously, when people kill, beat people up, use extortion, or engage of any of the other aspects of gang life that involve violence onto innocent beings, we have to take a hard line. But as I've pointed out before, (and had one comment deleted for doing so--an action by this news publication that I still feel was 100% wrong) unless we address the deep-rooted causes of gang violence--which involves taking as much a swipe at Right-wing and Left-wing political ideologies, then we will only be treating the symptoms and have to not only be building more prisons, but denying ourselves much human potential.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 2:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@hank: "By the way, nice closet racist comment about my supposed butchering the Eglish language. Must be because you "progressives" feel us Latinos can't speek Enguish qurekly."
My poor hank - there is nothing innately Latino about the ignorance you regularly display. Quite the contrary, it takes decades of practice to be your type of well-seasoned prat.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 6:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
btw-None of us in the center think we have all the answers. The Progressive Left has already proven that by spending billions of dollars they have already solved poverty, racism, bums, gang banging, traffic fatalities and illegal immigration. We are in awe of your laser sharp solutions...
As usual, when the gang discussion takes place, what's left out is the fact that too many families don't look after their kids and take responsibility for what they've thrust upon society. These families are too often referred to as victims which absolves them of responsibility for their own miscreants. I'm all for restorative justice if there is equal and absolute accountability for the entire dysfunctional family unit and that has not been the case.
Just like with illegal immigration we need to penalize employers AND enforce our borders AND deport people that break the law to get here. Without all three components we will never win.
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 6:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Querido ETRicardo:
De ahora en adelante te voy a responder en Espanol porque pareces que tienes problemas ententiendo Ingles.
La cosa que le ronca los cojones a cualquier persona de razon es como tu puedes defender y protejer los culeros estos que estan en pandillas. Como?
Por eso es que tu estas pasando pena, porque sabes que tu eres igual a uno de ellos: Un perdidor (como la cancion de Beck "Loser").
Y todavia creo que eres un racista arrepentido. Ustedes "progresivos" NUNCA seran Progresivos porque son tan limitados en ideas y les gustan soportar los criminales que estan en pandillas, mientra los Progresivos saben que esos animales no valen nada en termos the tiempo, dinero o sentimiento.
La pena que sufres es porque usted NUNCA vas a hacrer un Progresivo, siempre seras un "progresivo" y asi te vas a quedar.
Asi que porque tu no vas a "ocupar" un jardin or una plaza como un "progresivo" bueno y metete el deo en el culo mientra lo haces :) enrique
hank (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually Bill, felons can vote in the state of CA once they have finished their incarceration and probation or parole. http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.re...
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Itliansurg- You forgot one big one to you list there-changing our drug policy. People are not just coming over here to get jobs but to bring drugs or to escape the drug violence that has plagued Mexico and all Latin America, and of which the DEA and the CIA is known to be in the background pulling the strings.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 28, 2012 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Estimado amigo Enrique me gustaría hacerte una pregunta. ¿Te parece que muchos “progressives“ apoyan programas “bilingües” sabiendo que los presuntos beneficiaros no aprenderán el inglés mientras estes progresivos no intentan aprender el español?
Lo ironico es que a pesar de que digan que estan cuidando el bienser de los Latinos, me parece que no quieren comunicar con ellos.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
January 29, 2012 at 2:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Agreed with everything except the DEA and CIA pulling ALL of the strings. Sure our government is involved in some pretty stupid stuff, most recently the lame brained Eric Holder giving guns to Mexican gangs which should have cost him his job, but the Mexican gangs are running things quite well on their own which has directly led to the increase in U.S. gangs populated by illegal alien Mexicans and Americans of Mexican descent.
Hank-Stop showing off your bilingual skills. Do I need to start writing posts in Italian as well to prove I'm trilingual?. And bc summarized things quite well, once again.
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
January 29, 2012 at 6:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ever heard of Rick Ross? And I am sure there are a few Italian names I can name before him that were also used to do the governments dirty business including Sam Giancana. Right now its Mexicans, but it hasn't always been, what has always been though is the government in the background pulling the strings.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 29, 2012 at 9:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't disagree. I also know that my adopted government is typically more incompetent than they are efficient in their conspiracies.
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
January 30, 2012 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It seems like it, but they always meet their objectives and goals.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 30, 2012 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's funny how all these dumb people, blind people think that these young gang related dis-oriented teens are the only people commiting crimes. Before you judge and categorize these teens who don't have a clue how they're hurting themselves open your eyes and read a newspaper there is whites non-gang related killing their own family, but just because they aren't hispanics everybody looks past that. Lets target the white bussiness owning residents after all we did have one that killed his own brother. I'm not giving these dumb teens an excuse for the stupid things they're doing i'm just saying before you speak use your brain.
e1986gonzalez (anonymous profile)
January 30, 2012 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gonzales: "It's funny how all these dumb people, blind people think that these young gang related dis-oriented teens are the only people commiting crimes."
I don't believe ANYONE on here has said that. The topic IS about these tards & that's what the topic IS limited to.
But now that you mention it, lots of crime gets commited by many, let's see them ALL get the deserved consequences for their crimes, no color/race/whatever excluded.
Gonzales: "there are white non-gang related killing their own family, but just because they aren't hispanics everybody looks past that.
Lets target the white bussiness owning residents after all we did have one that killed his own brother."
Not true/accurate. That case was recently tried, the guilt was proven & he's going away for some time now.
In fact, he was locked up during the whole trial process from the day they arrested him.
The BIG difference is these gang clowns are trying to get people to look the other way for their brand of crime.
Gonzales: "I'm not giving these dumb teens an excuse for the stupid things they're doing.
We're on the same page :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 30, 2012 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GuillermoC: "Estimado amigo Enrique me gustaría hacerte una pregunta. ¿Te parece que muchos “progressives“ apoyan programas “bilingües” sabiendo que los presuntos beneficiaros no aprenderán el inglés mientras estes progresivos no intentan aprender el español?
Lo ironico es que a pesar de que digan que estan cuidando el bienser de los Latinos, me parece que no quieren comunicar con ellos."
That's because it ain't about the benefit of Latinos, it's more to their detriment. There's that "you can't do good for yourselves" thing all over again coupled w/ the "we know what's good for you" w/ a smidgeon of "do as we say, not as we do."
It is ironic on so many levels. I think it all comes down to self-hating Whitism coupled w/ a touch of closet racism.
Add to that the fact that some of those "progressives" stand to make a buck from those programs & you got yourself a real schmeel of a deal :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
January 31, 2012 at 5 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Always about that almighty dollar because in reality there is NO politician that really cares about our well being that much. (I say this without sarcasm)
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 31, 2012 at 11:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a point that might or might not make sense to anyone, as much as people are intimidated by these gangs and feel a need for injunctions, how come there isn't any injunctions being created against the homeless who congregate in certain areas of our city? After all if we check the stats, there is more crime being committed in those areas by homeless people than there is by gang members throughout Santa Barbara. Every year there are unsolved murders of transients, but it isn't every year we have gang murders, much less unsolved ones. Now if we go into the assaults, robberies, and drug dealing, I think we would see that the numbers would would prove what I am saying.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
January 31, 2012 at 11:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@AZ2SB: I'm sure the injunctions against the homeless are coming. Little by little more and more groups/individuals/activities are being criminalized because after all, it's just too much effort to dig to the root causes.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
February 1, 2012 at 1:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have seen very few groups calling white criminals, as a group, victims. We focus on Latino gangs in SB because, well, the gang membership is nearly 100% Latino here. I am fully in support of treating the occasional non Latino SB gang member with the same injunction.
If we were in Boston, for example, I would gladly focus on Irish gangs if there were folks trying to convince us that those punks were victims...
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
February 1, 2012 at 6:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)