A Radical Gun-Control Proposal

How cute Dan. As usual, both extremes on this issue are obviously ludicrous. How did extreme gun regulation work out in Norway, where private owners must justify their intended use of weapons and all weapons must be locked up in gun safes and unloaded, when that nut killed 77 people?
Work to change the constitution if you do not like it.

Actually, if you dial the sarcasm back a notch, this really is the solution.

No one would shoot up theaters if there was a chance that a large number of the movie-goers were armed. Same with daycare centers, temples and schools.

We've already seen the violent crime rate plummet due to people once again being able to carry a firearm for self-protection. We know that works.

As for limits on what types of firearms people can own, that makes no sense.

Law-abiding people will never be a problem, and criminals will never obey the laws on what they can and can't own (see your example of the felon with 47 firearms).

As for kids with firearms, it used to be pretty common for kids to have their own firearm, and in rural areas it still is. No big stretch there.

Looks like every suggestion you made here would be an improvement.

Good job, even if that wasn't your intent.

I own a Beretta 92G 9mm, I have training with certification in my home State and have proven on a qualified Range (through a Range Master) that I can SAFELY operate my firearm.
I don't carry it concealed but I could though since I'm licensed in my State, I have carried for over 12 years OPENLY in a Triple safety holster without incident. I have MY gun secured in a weapon safe / with a combo lock, un-loaded and the ammunition seperate and locked also.
I have drawn my weapon twice without firing and in both instances I drew out of fear for my life and not out of anger or brovado. I also for those 12 years carried in relation to my career as a Force Protection Officer on US Government Property and carried a simular firearm for that job.
At NO point do I advocate Mass-Firearm collecting out of fear or precieved threat, I do advocate firearm training and extensive training with proficiency before carrying openly or concealed. The instant additude of passing more laws against or more protections to prevent incidents as Aurora or Wisconsin out of reaction is insane since there is many Gun Laws that aren't enforced and as for the registation part, many gun sellers are against registration because they believe the Government will track them down one day and force them to give up their guns. Tracking does little with regard to the insane or crazy, who have yet to be registered as such and even then, attempting to stop them before they kill violates their personal rights if your wrong and they just need their meds.
It is a slippery slope we tread, regarding restricting firearm owners and users from useing, possessing and aquiring said guns and until the laws that are on the books are enforced passing new ones are useless.
I don't carry everyday, personally or otherwise even though I live in a very violent and deadly area but if I did, I would be proficient with what I carried and certified with my Government with a registered weapon so as to protect myself in court and the Constitution; as so should all LAW Abiding Citizens.

HaHa! That's awesome! But the really funny part is - wait for it - that is not far from how it works in Switzerland and they have crime and murder rates so low they are the envy of the industrialized world.

So joke all you want, but the proof is in the pudding.

Frial Liberty
https://twitter.com/frail_liberty

The giveaway that you don't know anything about firearms....."clip"

The inanity of the gun nuts in this thread is, sadly, not breathtaking.

italiansurg cites ONE incident in Norway to assert that gun control doesn't work. That's just dumb. I'll wait while italiansurg investigates statistical gun fatalities in Norway compared to the USA, the only way to make a valid comparison. He won't like the result.

But spencer60 makes italiansurg look like a genius. He asserts that "No one" would shoot up theaters, etc. if everyone was armed. Of course, there is no evidence for that whatsoever.

He asserts that reduced crime rates are due to people being able to carry a firearm. Of course, there is no evidence for that whatsoever.

He asserts that limits on what types of firearms people can own make no sense. Of course, there is no evidence for that whatsoever.

He asserts that criminals will never obey [gun] laws. Of course, there is no evidence for that whatsoever. Moreover, bank robbers never obey robbery laws so, what the hell, let's just get rid of those silly laws too. Right?

The nuttery here is so singular I'll simply quote him back to himself, "Good job, even if that wasn't your intent."

dou4now gives us a long screed that tells us how utterly responsible he is as a gun owner. Bully for him. The obvious question is, "So what?" Just because one guy is - or at least claims to be - a responsible gun owner, is he claiming his behavior should be the standard for USA gun laws.

Finally, frail_liiberty cites his ... wait for it ... twitter feed(!) as his "proof" of his view. That's hilarious. I suggest that he go to the following sites to see why his comparison to Switzerland is completely meaningless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_poli...

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/36710...

Ho Boy. You guys should charge admission for the entertainment you provide. LOLs all around.

Wow Dan, you have a lot of hostility don't you?

Maybe you can tell us *why* our society is so violent. Isn't it interesting that when a bunch of white folks get killed it's newsworthy but when people of color are getting slaughtered in droves in the inner cities by not only guns, but by knives, baseball bats, and in fights there is such silence?

How many gun deaths are cited in the article? vs. how many die because of gang violence? Interesting paradox.

Maybe focusing on the root causes of why American culture is so sick would net better long-term results.

Still, if it were up to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S5Cab...

"We owe it to our kids to put a firearm in every Spiderman backpack."

A timely & ironic segue to yesterday's University of Colorado decision to allow concealed weapons to be carried by students.

Most U.S. colleges and universities prohibit firearms on campus but UC's decision was in reluctant compliance to the Colorado State Supreme Court's ruling to overturn UC's longstanding ban on all firearms.

Charles Bronson is smirking in his grave.

I think of the American Frontier culture where guns/rifles were everywhere and yet these mass shootings were not happening. What has changed in our culture?

Once again (sigh) the bad guys get hold of the guns, just as the drug addicts get hold of the heroin. Also, Virginia Tech bragged about being a gun-free zone prior to the massacre a few years ago.

#*&$ happens, and the impetus of this letter is a total of about 20 deaths. It's interesting how a few instances of multiple killings brings the nation to its knees, yet drunk drivers wipe out lives and maim people every day yet the same people who are anti-gun either remain silent, or actively support the booze industry. Also, the ongoing problem of gang violence, road rage, etc.

What about the woman being stalked by some psycho who won't respect the restraining order? What is she supposed to do when he's in her house at 4 in the morning running toward her bed, throw a left jab?

Why don't we just say it: The overall issue is not about gun *control* it's about gun *prohibition*. Like those who think more anti-drug laws are the answer, the anti-gun people refuse to look at the societal changes that have fueled the gun violence--just as these changes have fueled the drug problem. (One hint: The crumbling family unit might be a good barometer) Also, guns represent the hated capitalist/conservative culture much the way marijuana represents the free-love Hippie culture that irks so many of the right-wingers. A lot of symbolism in this issue.

When all is said and done, the main difference between myself and prohibitionists is that I don't have the faith in the State that they do, and would rather dig at the causes of the violence.

Here are three links to refute the notion that 2nd-Amendment supporters are uncivilized Neanderthals:

http://pinkpistols.org/

http://www.2asisters.org/

http://jpfo.org/

I don't see hostility as much as I see the intentional use of sarcasm in McCaslin's letter.

My takeaway is he's illustrating his point by extending the efforts of the gun lobby and their supporters to their logical conclusion. It's a rhetorical conclusion, obviously, but one that is useful to ponder.

I'd guess a sub-theme is that there is little middle-ground in the gun debate, such as it is. The voices & money on the conservative side are currently drowning out the rest at the moment even though the split on more gun restrictions is roughly even:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politic...

BC-Please stop utilizing your brain and instead let a jerking knee formulate and control your opinions...

To SezMe;
'No evidence' eh? You obviously don't care to look if you say that.

If you look at every mass-murder in the last 20 years, the vast majority have taken place in so-called 'gun free' zones.

Why not police stations, shooting ranges, or the NRA Annual Convention?

Because these killers may be psychotic, but they aren't usually stupid.

They go to where their victims are disarmed by law to maximize the body count and insure that they don't meet effective resistance.

Is there 'evidence' for this view? There is certainly anecdotal evidence from post-incident interviews with killers who survived.

Or just total up all the mass-murders in the last 20 years (since the 'gun free zone' was foisted on us), and see where they occurred.

There's also the evidence of common sense, something completely lacking in the gun control lobby.

If you exclude law abiding, armed citizens from an area, the only ones there with guns will be, by definition, criminals.

As for your other statements...

The scientific method doesn't ever allow you to prove anything is correct. You can only prove something is incorrect.

"Reduced crime rates are due to more legal license holders."

To disprove it we'd need to say that there were more license holders and crime rates still went up.

Nope, violent crime rates are at 40 year lows while the number of carry license holders is at an all time high.

We can't prove that the increase in legal license holders has 'caused' the decrease in crime rates.

We can however disprove the gun control industry contention that more firearms being carried causes more crime.

The crime and gun sales data for the last 20 years does that handily.

As for limiting what types of firearms a law abiding citizen can buy, how can this make sense?

By definition, a law abiding citizen isn't going to do anything 'bad' with whatever firearm they have.

By definition, a criminal will beg borrow or steal whatever weapon they want.

So limiting what good citizens can buy based on what criminals may want is at best counter-productive, and at worst repressive.

The bank robbery scenario is a canard. Bank robbery is a conscious violation of the law. A criminal act (emphasis on the 'act' part).

Gun control laws don't prosecute actions, they try to be preemptive.

Their premise is that anyone who has access to a certain type of firearm, or ammunition, or accessory will BECOME a criminal.

That is simply wrong. It's the underlying fallacy of the failed doctrine of gun control.

If it were true the evidence would be everywhere. Any AK-47 sold would create a new mass-murderer.

Does this happen. Of course not.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and say nah-nah-nah all you want.

Saying there is 'no evidence' doesn't mean that there is no evidence.

The proof is all around you. You simply need to open your eyes. And your mind.

The sarcasim is well noted. I chuckled when one theater attendee shot himself in the butt when his gun fell out as he adjusted the folding seat.

Sadly, it is impossible to legislate human behavior; we can only act on the outcomes. Some prevention is possible IF we help identify the mentally ill and get them to treatment. Society can perhaps help by becoming more civil. But us grey beards have seen our wonderful public leaders set such fantastic examples in the past 20 years. It only is getting worse.

For myself, my guns were only family hand-me-downs until about 10 years ago. I bought a 10mm handgun for hiking/biking around the Southeast or the Appalachia trail because of the wild boars, pythons, and meth camps I kept running into. Have felt tempted to buy something for SB camping but not yet.

Even if a small percentage of those theater-goers had been armed many lives would have been saved.

So was the absence of mass murder in the Frontier U.S. of yore due to civility, or because such a person would be subdued by an armed person before they could get off more rounds? Could it have been both?

The right to bear arms without restrictions was written in a time where a boy learned to shoot 'when he was ready' and the right of passage was a squirrel or a deer. And communities were small, close knit and wouldn't sell a gun to 'crazy Joe'.
Also, having and using a gun in your home to defend your family is a completely different frame of mind from using your gun to protect yourself and strangers in public. The last thing I want is a bunch of gunners in a theater whose only 'training' is shooting defenseless milk jugs on Gibraltar Road. There is a whole lot of stress screening and conditioning to teach one to shoot someone else. Even then, you never know how well the training works until the real thing. Just look at how many bystanders were shot by two trained New York cops on Friday.

No thanks. The amendment needs some modernization to update the 'without restrictions' clause

@passagerider ... one of my mountain-biking buddies was a sergeant in the SBPD. Whenever we rode in the backcountry behind Paradise Rd, he'd bring along his Glock. He felt it was his duty as a cop. Never had to use it. The pot growers are likely way off the beaten path. Surprised you saw meth camps on the AT.

passagerider: You raise an interesting point about untrained users. I do think that part of the deal is mandatory training for users.

@Eastbeach: Gladly no meth camps on the AT parts i have hiked. But when I have seen them when hiking or biking elsewhere in the south where I have a home. But I primarily carry because of the wild hogs will charge you. Or in south Florida 'cause the friggin' snakes are now bigger than people and they are non-native anyhow. The gators really won't bother you (much). I have thought about carrying a gun in SB but the bad snakes and losers all warn you and that is all I need until I hit 75 or so.

@bill. Sadly, the constitution will never, ever get changed to define mandatory gun restrictions like training or mental health checks. And mental health checks are covered by privacy.

I certainly understand why someone morally would never want to own a gun. I wish i didn't have them and didn't ever need to use them. We need another 10000 years to evolve to the higher plane of maturity. Many, many people are already at that maturity plane like maybe Dan the author. But sadly too many people aren't.

With all due respect to a teacher, you can only buy hunting rifles at Big 5. If you want to buy a Glock or a Sig or a hot little Walther PPK I suggest you head down to Compton or over to Oakland or any of our great cities to purchase your hardware.
There, you will will run into sales people that represent many of the gangs that are in control.
There are over one million of these guys who will be happy to supply you and your students with your needs. Just look for the Crips, Bloodz, MS-13, Mexican Mafia, Latin Kings, Texas 7, Hells Angles etc. You need cash. No plastic in the hood.
Make sure you check the serial numbers so you don't buy any that came from that genius Holder's Fast and Furious fiesta.
ps. if you want to buy local check out the Carpas, Krazies or Locos.
Peace and good luck. Ramon

Question: How are anti-gun laws enforced?
Answer: By government officials carrying guns.

A lawful gun owner and carrier may have had a chance to intervene in Aurora. That's a fact.

Criminals don't obey the law (hence the label "criminal"), so they will acquire and carry guns unlawfully when they choose. That's also a fact.

You will NEVER deny lawful gun ownership for lawful citizens. Not even with your ludicrous, mocking, childish article...also a fact.

Wasn't this nut in Aurora wearing bulletproof ? How many gun owners are good at hitting the head of the target 20 yards away? Didn't the cops in New York last week hit several bystanders in order to take down the lone gunman who was out to get just one guy? As well, I hear a glock will just piss a bear off. Also heard that tear gas will buy you more time in a stand off with a bear.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08...
all the wounded bystanders were hit by police gun fire at the empire state building.

Don't spray me bro! Against our ursine friends, bear spray is more effective than a handgun:

http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/be...

http://alaska.usgs.gov/products/pubs/...

Sorry, but a .44 magnum will do more damage than that little can of pepper spray. No matter what, though, the best policy is to not p**s off a bear at any costs.

I've never tried shooting a charging bear in the head. But based on what I've read, a 250-300 grain .44 magnum round can be effective, but only if you can handle the recoil.

Then again, this bear hunter says he's seen results vary greatly:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

For most hikers/backpackers, there seems to be lots of evidence out there that bear spray will be a more effective protection system. But if you have a cool head and are a practiced marksman, then more power to you.

"You can't shoot Mongo. You'd only make him mad."

Boy, this thread drifted away from Dan's point that it is crazy and stupid to arm everyone to seeing who is brave enough to shoot a charging bear.

Either way, someone shooting back or shooting a 500 pound angry charging bear is a lot different than shooting at a target. 20 amateur shooters in a movie theater would be more scary to me than Southwest Asia. Who is the original shooter again please?

"Candygram for Mongo!...Candygram for Mongo" "Mongo like candy" Kaboom!

As a member of a 10th generation California Family, we had firearms in the home.

Age 6, I had my first bow and my Father and I shot straw almost every summer evening for years.

2nd grade I was a Cub Scout and wore a folding knife on my belt as part of my uniform, to School, once a week and on days we raised the Flag of the United States for the school to Pledge Allegiance.

I had two .22 LR rifles and ammunition in my room at age 12.

We did not have a Gun Safe my rifles hung on a wooden rack.

My buddy had a 25-06 in his room on the wall; he hunted with his Physician Father.

My Father and I hunted with Bow and Arrow but not firearms.

My Father trained me as his Father trained him.

My Father had a pistol but I was not allowed to use it, my Father believed that two hands on a rifle were safer for young kids.

I used my rifles without adult supervision from age 12 on.

Three age 13 boys camped in the summer without adults for a week on the North Fork of the Matilija Creek with rifles.

Since 1962 I have traveled the backcountry and a firearm has always been present.

I have killed many a tin can in my day but never had the need to kill a living animal, I go around rattle snakes but always have snake shot available, just in case.

Just once on a horse pack trip a Mountain Lion had to be killed that threatened a picket line of hobbled horses, it was rabid.

I peddled my bicycle in town with a .22 rifle across the handlebars.

I rode horseback with a rifle in a scabbard.

No one cared about the open carry of firearms.

I have never harmed anyone with a firearm or other weapon.

I backpacked with a girl in the 1980’s into a remote area, passed a camp of 3 men with two bottles of booze and was glad I had a rifle lashed to my pack when we camped nearby.

The real question is, What has Changed?

Why has Society become so Violent?

What Social Policies have given rise to so much Violence?

Why are boys of the same age so much more Immature than I and my friends where?

Why are young boys so much more disrespectful and less civic minded than I and my friends where?

What Sociological forces are at work that we no longer know our neighbors or leave our doors unlocked?

What Policies has our Government enacted that has diminished society?

Author please understand the difference between a "Clip" and a "Magazine", if you want to be taken as knowagable.

Oh, yes in 50 years of kicking around the backcountry or sailing on the sea, never had to call on a Governmental Agency for help.

My Father taught me how to do become one with the environment and to be humble and respectful of Mother Nature.

The Yankee could learn a thing or two from the locals.

California State Law

1. Handgun purchaser must have a HSC (handgun Safety certificate), test that covers general safety and applicable laws, and wait 10 days until pickup (for background check, which includes mental health, at which time purchaser must demonstrate ability to safely load/unload the handgun at the store.

2. Purchaser must be 21 years of age to purchase, no exceptions, not even current Military. Military can die in the service of their County but not purchase a handgun until age 21 in California.

3. Handgun owner must be 18 years of age with valid HSC if Parents gift a handgun to them.

In general use, I think it's OK to interchange 'clip' for 'magazine' the same way folks interchange 'bullet' for 'cartridge' or 'round'. You pretty much know what they mean even though it's technically not correct.

I recently read an article about how the NRA has changed since the 1970's. They apparently used to place more emphasis on firearm safety and was less politicized than they are today.

So a question I'd add to the list is ... what effect has the radicalization of the NRA and their lobbying efforts had on American views on gun ownership?

@EastBeach,

I would say something other than the NRA is behind the fracturing of American Society.

My families firearms were not in a safe nor were the firearms of friends houses I visited. We did not lock our houses except at night. We did not lock our cars or our garages. No one brought guns to school, all the boys I knew carried small folding knives, I still have my Cub Scout knife, no one was ever threatened or stabbed.

What happened?

Our Police did not have armored personnel carriers nor Swat Teams, peoples doors were not bashed in nor were the wrong houses selected by accident and people killed.

It was a Kinder and Gentler Time, still we had Firearms.

We were not a Collective but Individuals, raised to be responsible for our Actions.

My Father required Manhood from me, I am thankful for that, with Manhood came responsibility but also a whole lot more Freedom than Boys have today.

I submit the grand social experiment of Government as the Nanny is directly responsible for the issue.

Virginia Tech, Arizona, Colorado, all College Age kids, that could not fit in, just mentally ill or something else. In each case clear and distinct warning signs that the Educators chose to ignore?

Sorry something else is at work here, much more complex than simply gutting our Constitutional Republic's Bill of Rights.

@EastBeach,

Definitions and Terms are important, especially for a Teacher.

Here is a link to the 52 page CADOJ HSC Pamphlet.

The terms are explained in simple detail.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/h...

Your Homework assignment is to understand the material,

Pop Quiz Tomorrow.

@HGWMV, on that one we're just going to have to disagree. I don't think McCaslin's opinion would have been any clearer if he had used the word 'magazine' instead of 'clip'. That's just being nitpicky.

@EastBeach,

If it was a question on one of Mr. McCaslin's Tests, it would have mattered.

Just like one must answer correctly on the Hunter Safety Test, about a Cartridge and it's components. If I have to know all these answers, by Law, to purchase and enjoy firearms and hunting, certainly those who print unfair Caricatures of Firearms Owners must be held to the same.

You think the NRA has gotten Radical since the 1970's?

Lets see were was the NRA in 1989 in California or 1994 in Washington D.C. or again California in 2000.

The Heller and MacDonald cases were brought and paid for by Libertarians not the NRA, the NRA was afraid of Heller and actually tried to torpedo it.

The Libertarians woke the NRA up.

Still any ideas on why American Culture has devolved? Why we had knives in school and no one was harmed? Why I rode my bicycle, at age 12 with my Fathers prior permission, and bought two boxes of .22LR shells. What have we lost and why?

@HGWMV: The question we are asking (why has our society devolved) is the question the gun prohibitionists either have no answer for, or don't want to answer because doing so would be an admission of their failed social experiment.

@billclausen,

For the WIN!

Florida's experience shows very clearly that gun crimes against Florida citizens declined steadily for at least 10 years immediately after "right to carry" was passed into law. The stats are online. When the bad guys don't know who's packing, they're much less reluctant to use a gun. Darn data - always difficult for those with strong opinions to choke it down.

If we want to save the lives of 30,000 little children, women and other innocent victims, we would reduce driving speeds to no more than 35mph. But we won’t, because we have made a compromise-speed against lives.
In America-a country founded by religious people with guns-we have a history and a little thing called the Second Amendment.
People who don’t like this should move.

Yes, I will *not* be signing up for the idea that tightening restrictions on mass-murdering machinery somehow leads to Cultural Decline, or a "failed social experiment" (or even infringement of Second Amendment rights, for that matter).

As "howgreenwasmyvalley" wisely points out, "Sorry something else is at work here, much more complex..."

I like what these folks have been working on, the "influence of social context on community health, using crime as the indicator of collective wellbeing."
ftp://psyftp.mcmaster.ca/dalywilson/sshrc2004/wilkinsonCrime.pdf

- Relative Deprivation (income inequality, anomie)
+
- Absolute Deprivation (poverty, unemployment, poor education)
+
- Social Cohesion (social disorganization, social capital, collective efficiency)
+
- Poor Health (physical and mental)

>> all contributors to <<

= = = Violent and Property crime = = =

As my gun-friendly neighbors correctly point out, guns don't cause murders just as cars don't cause accidents. And if you don't trust your neighbor, it's easy to view guns as a method of security. Kawachi's research shows an increase in gun ownership as the social contract weakens. So the causes of homicide and gun ownership are linked, but not dependent. This London study showed "gun prevalence has no significant net positive effect on homicide rates:, more guns do not mean more crime."
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf...

Repairing the social contract, by increased participation in our schools, labor unions, farmers' markets, and gun ranges, places of worship, civic clubs, and local government, leads to better civic security and health. This is where good government fits in, in providing increased access to health and social aid.
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-pr...

"This is because politically oriented individuals are also more likely to serve the needs of their community and assist in collective endeavors aimed at reducing crime. All of which follows the classic Tocquevillian premise: a willingness to take part in political affairs generates a willingness to contribute to the common good, including the production and maintenance of a safe and secure society."

Hoplophobia is alive and well in Academia.

This is a DEAF 3 year-old that the Reeducation Camp, education system, wants the Parents to change his name because the Certified Sign of his NAME, offends them. I sincerely hope the Deaf Rights Group sues them into submission.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buSDPn...

@binky,

You will not address why in my childhood, my guns hung safely on the wall, my home remained unlocked during the day, our garage door was unlocked or open at all times, our car was not locked nor had an alarm. We were never robbed, just good luck or something else?

A quick look at the weekly recap of "Roger Code Red", the scanner guy, on another site shows how well your experiment is working.

Social Engineering is another name for Fascism, or am I missing something in my study of World History?

@howgreenwasmyvalley

"You will not address why in my childhood, my guns hung safely on the wall, my home remained unlocked during the day, our garage door was unlocked or open at all times, our car was not locked nor had an alarm. We were never robbed, just good luck or something else?"

There are far too many factors involved in generating an answer to your question. You might as well be asking, "Can't we just get along?"

And the attempt at using the term "social engineering" as inflammatory shows more of your own political leanings. Fascism is not 'engineering'--it's control by power, caused by fear. And while fascists can considerably by found in both ends of the political spectrum, their commonality is extremity.

However, if you consider the idea that, "Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture" (source: Wikipedia), I think that the idea is more applicable to those of (extreme) right-wing tendencies. And don't take that as a biased condemnation--if you look far enough to the left, you'll find some who are just as ridgid--PETA is the first thing that comes to mind....

@equus_posteriori,

Sorry as a small "L" Libertarian, I am Fiscally Conservative but Socially as Left as you can go, in the area if Civil Rights and that would be everyones Civil Rights.

Yes Social Engineering is Fascist. Elitist Academics demand, using the Jack Booted Force of Government, that the parents of a young Deaf child change the boys name because because the Signing of his Name is Offensive to them.

I guess the Bill of Rights does not serve the Deaf.

"Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture"

Is that just what the "School" is trying to do, ban any and all influences of "Gun Culture" to the point of demanding the child have a Name Change?

So the Academics will now be publishing a Politically Correct List of Names for our Children and a special list in case your child is Deaf?

What a bunch of pathetic excuses for adults those teachers are (re: deaf child). I'd like to give them a few hand signs.

@Ken_Volok,

It appears the ACLU is now on the case and has sent a letter on behalf of the child.

I would like to know if the pro gun ownership writers here beleive there should be any limits at all on the type or number of guns and ammo an ordinary citizen should be permitted and if so what. I do beleive that a citizen with no criminal record should most certainly be allowed to own and carry guns with proof of competency but there do need to be some limits.

One of the historical differences is firepower. Back in the past, if some loon shot up a place- it was with a pistol. Now they have automatic weapons. Who needs those to defend their home or hunt?

I'll answer your question N-Man. Yes, I do think there should be limits, but enforcing those limits could be dicey. I also believe that a firearms safety course should be mandatory for anyone purchasing a gun. (Obviously, if one already has completed the course, no need to take a refresher course simply because a new gun has been purchased)

@Ken_Volok,

No New Automatic Weapons since 1986 in USA, only very few in California, mostly Movie Industry and highly regulated, ie the Feds may check you anytime day or night and make you account for them.

My BIL spent 33 years in LE in a Free State. He now owns a SBR (short barrel rifle) 9" with a CAN (sound supressor).

California for 99.99% does not allow.

In a Free State he had to wait 7 months to take Legal Possession of the Two items and pay what is called a Federal Tax Stamp on both items, per (NFA) National Firearms Act of 1934.

I do not think that since 1934, there has ever been a firearms Crime committed by the registered owner using a registered NFA item.

Most of the Automatic Weapons and Sound Suppressor mystic has been created by Hollywood. It is make believe.

NFA items generally are owned by collectors with very very expensive collections. Each item is Registered and Tax Paid to the Feds, the Owner waives due process and the Feds have the right to inspect 24/7.

@Noletman,

Many gun owners have 100's of firearms. Many are historical collections dealing with an era of time or a single manufacture, mini museums.

Highly engraved European Shotguns, Western Era Single Action pistols or Lever Action rifles etc. Art ,which is in the eye of the beholder sometimes revolves around metallurgy.

My Father collected Silver Fruit knives,

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=s...

People collect every imaginable item, including Firearms.

I think the lack of human interaction is a huge factor in the violence and incivility we witness and experience. We communicate via computers, many of us are locked up in our cars for hours. Many areas in life in which we once interacted with each other and/or the natural world but less commonly do now.
A lot of people also are forever chasing a physical or material ideal that only exists because of PhotoShop and Madison Ave.

@Ken_Volok,

That surely is correct. We personally made the economic decision to have less, my wife stayed home and we have raised two very beautiful children, heart and soul, with many many hours of involvement.

It is real hard when your kids comes home sad because all the kids told of their summer vacation adventures/travels and your kids just had a staycation.

We have taught them to "Question Authority", Love their fellow Human, always be respectful of Mother Earth and always demand their Natural Rights from those who would diminish them.

"I think the lack of human interaction is a huge factor in the violence and incivility we witness and experience. " -K. Volok-

Which is why You and I and Hank got ourselves perpendicular and went out and had dinner.

OK, this comment might get banned, and I accept this because what I'm about to say will be controversial but I'm sticking by this. Here goes: Ever notice how there are almost no Hispanic mass shooters? Here is why: They don't grow up isolated as whites do. Their culture incorporates interaction with extended family, and community at large is part of growing up. I'm convinced if such pastime values were encouraged in American Protestant culture, we'd see a lot less of this "acting out", and less time spent in the psychologists' office. Just my observation.

Good observation billclausen, and I enjoyed that dinner with you guys as well! Always fun to get together and discuss life and its issues with others, even when we may find ourselves coming from differing perspectives, when all involved are adult enough to respect one another and not censor the other guy's viewpoint in any way.

Onward to your statement; I agree that isolation in our personal lives is a serious issue and one worth examining and hopefully correcting. I noticed when traveling outside the US that the way people live in their homes is far different from the way we live here. Here we have massive houses for example, taking up huge amounts of space, insulating us from neighbors and passers-by. That alone is a statement in itself. Americans need "space". What's up with that?

Kudos to cultures where family is paramount, even if you find yourselves physically distanced, the family remains central, even if by Skype, voice, or email. Accountability to family is also a factor, as it is in mine; don't do anything to reflect poorly on the family, especially the elders. You were raised better, you know better, now live the way you were raised. Don't be a bigot, don't hurt anyone, clean up your mess, etc.

Our culture is in serious trouble and the mass shootings are just indicative of the malignancy within. The miner's canary dies because there isn't enough oxygen in the mine shaft, not because it is a bad bird.

Just something to reflect on.

Yes that was very fun and look forward to breaking bread again!
Another factor is dependency on outside sources for food ect. The more self sufficient communities are, studies show the healthier they are on all levels.
Our Ag industry is far more important than our tourist industry in the long run. We can grow the food and sell it here. We are constantly in need of ever more traffic coming into town to keep coffers filled, coffers often belonging to nonlocal entities.
Balance in all things is key.

@howgreen
Your children are blessed.

An excellent point about self-sufficiency. The more localized economies are, the better. Less chance of red tape. This concept translates across the board.

@billclausen,

As a drive-in caffeine junky. I always note that the Yankee kids just order, no hello, how are you, good morning etc. I find it rude.

I was raised to say "Good Morning, how are you" make the human connection before ordering. I always get a warm reply from every hispanic/latino that takes my order, and they remember me, they are more than a face, they have a Name.

You are correct about Hispanic/Latino culture but I think it goes beyond immediate family and branches out into World View, this part of the culture was adopted by many peoples that settled in the early West.

@Ken_Volok,

We are lucky to have a 15'x15' vegetable garden, the Tomatoes are unbelievable this year. Thank You, but I am blessed by them.

@Holly,

Family is everything, my wife and I took care of my Parents that died within 48 days of each other and a week later took in my Wife's Mother that is almost blind. Mom now stays with us and another daughter in AZ, we trade off and give each of us a break. It is the way it should be.

Life lessons for our children to observe and ponder, it is not all about Self.

Your words are Profound.

@Ken_Volok,

Since you mentioned Machine Guns, I just had to look it up.

The National Firearms Act was passed in 1934, Why?

The prohibition of alcohol was ended in 1933.

The Internal Revenue Service had 15,000 Revenue Agents that were out of work in 1933, so the NFA was passed to employ those 15,000 Revenue Agents in a new Job, Regulating Firearms.

The NFA was an Employment Act during the Depression and not a Social Needs Act.

Machine Guns are only banned in these States (CA, DE, DC, HI, NY, WA), for Civilians to Own.

All other States allow ownership pursuant to Federal Law.

An M16 Machine Gun that is transferable in a non-banned State is around $30,000.00, the prices go up from that point.

Since no new Machine Guns since 1986, the law of supply and demand is alive and well, only Rich People have Machine Guns and they are very highly Regulated. Only 6 States Ban the ownership by Civilians.

The Media would have you belief different.

I think you can see what the Media prints and what is Truth, are two different things all together.

In one of the other Guns are bad threads I brought up that the origins of Gunlaws is Racist in Nature and I was challenged on the Subject.

Found it.

Early 1920's California passed a Law prohibiting Foreign Born Citizens of California from possessing Handguns.

The Law targeted Chinese and Mexicans.

The California Supreme Court ruled in 1924 that the Law was Constitutional (Rameriz v California), this Law stood for 50 years until 1974.

Overcrowding and competition for resources - read Territorial Imperative, Robert Ardrey. We're territorial animals, overcrowding, traffic jams, long lines, restrictions on our use of our territory, etc., cause stress. Governments like the city of SB that exhibit a psychopathic control obsession over private property also increase stress and the tendency toward violence. Binky's comment alludes to this a little, but his comment is muddled by his misinterpretations of the irrational cop/criminal justice propaganda he quoted - repair the social contract through participation in labor unions and gun ranges?, plus de Toqueville, a vehement anti-socialist democrat whose philosophy wouldn't include the existence of organized labor. I didn't realize LE indoctrination was this extensively warped. Poor health is linked to violence? - violent cancer, heart disease patients or what? I can see that "disintegration of the social contract" defined as government and police corruption leads to increased emphasis on personal means of defense and an increase in gun possession.
We don't see many gun battles - we've had many attacks by armed people on the unarmed, and I believe, as is the case in Switzerland, where every household is armed and gun violence is incredibly low, that leveling the playing field may be the best means of reducing violence.

I agree with howgreenwasmyvalley; something in our culture has changed.

I grew up in small-town Iowa. It seemed everyone had firearms. During WWII, we supplemented rationed meat with rabbits, pheasants, etc.

I first fired a .22 rifle when I was 7. I bought my first gun when I was 10, etc.

People didn’t shoot each other (very often). The homicide rate in that part of the country is still comparable with western European countries.

Given the existing supply, I think banning certain types of firearms would be little more effective than outlawing pot or other drugs has proven to be. The problem is more subtle than that.

Perhaps we should look to other countries with liberal gun laws such as New Zealand where the homicide rate from firearms is less than 1/10 that of the U.S. They vet the prospective gun owner much more carefully than we do and worry less about the firearm.

Germany has an average of 150 gun deaths a year.

http://www.heedinggodscall.org/conten...