The war of words and morally informed eating habits that have raged across the country since Chick-fil-A head honcho Dan Cathy announced his decidedly anti-gay marriage opinions came to roost in Santa Barbara this week.
The controversial, poultry-powered fast-food chain has been in the city planning approval process for months now as it prepares to move into the once-upon-a-time Burger King on the 3700 block of State Street. The project received approval from the Architectural Board of Review (ABR) last year, but this week, with the plan returning for final sign-off on some late-hour landscaping tweaks, the board majority, for what appeared to be political reasons stemming from the gay-marriage flap, opted to abstain from voting on Monday.
That effectively prevented the project from getting, at least for the time being, some of the necessary building permits it needs to move forward. After some awkward silence and refusing of urges from staff to take a vote on the revisions, the board voted 5-0 to table the topic for two weeks.
Last month, when the same landscaping and patio changes were before the all-volunteer board, members Gary Mosel and Keith Rivera opted to abstain from the vote, but the changes eventually moved ahead after a post-meeting consent was granted by the board’s Vice-Chair Paul Zink.
This time around, with the item on the board’s Consent Agenda for a final procedural approval, the duo again chose to abstain and were joined by fellow members Kirk Gradin, Chris Gilliland, and Stephanie Poole for a variety of reasons. Board Chair Dawn Sherry and Zink were absent. Explaining his decision to withhold a vote on the project, Mosel said from the dais, “For political reasons, I cannot vote on that.”
In the wake of the non-vote, City Councilmember Cathy Murillo, who, along with her fellow councilmembers, will eventually rule on any possible appeals stemming from the ABR’s final vote, said City Hall has already received a large volume of calls and emails both supporting and opposing the ABR’s decision to make no decision at all.
[UPDATE, 10:00 a.m.]: In the wake of the non-vote, Santa Barbara Mayor Helene Schneider addressed the issue in an open letter to the community on Tuesday evening. Explaining first that she too does not agree with the views of Chick-fil-A’s CEO, Schneider took exception with the politicizing of an otherwise non-political process.
“The City’s approval process about Chick-fil-A’s building application is not about gay marriage, it’s about the design of a building, and the approval of the project should be based on those merits alone,” wrote the mayor, later adding, “I would hope that the project would be approved or denied based not on personal, religious, or political beliefs, but on the merits of the application.”
To that end, City Planner Bettie Weiss informed ABR members late Tuesday that, despite their abstention, city staff issued an after-the-fact administrative approval of the landscaping and patio tweaks, thus allowing building permits to go forward.
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- Letter from Mayor Helene Schneider [ August 8, 2012 ]



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Good job, ABR. Thank you for helping to keep hate mongers out of our social architecture.
banjo (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Every board member must now resign. This board has embarrassed itself and Santa Barbara. Ones political views has nothing to do with landscaping. But hey, this is SB and the nuts will come to there defense praising them for taking a stand on something not within their power or control.
Priceless (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a disgrace and a sham. To those that abstained for political reasons, do the right thing and resign. If you can't keep your personal opinions and your job duties separate, you have no business being there.
The ABR serves a specific purpose, and politics have no place in it.
Botany (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ethics have, and should have, a place in everything we do. I applaud them for doing the right thing, which is to abstain rather than cast a politically-motivated vote. Maybe you should stop getting so worked up about the ABR (which, by the way, is one of the reasons that SB is one of the most beautiful places in the country) trying to do the right thing, and direct your anger towards bigots and haters.
banjo (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
While I agree with ABR member's political political stance, their "action" potentially leaves the City vulnerable to litigation. The City, State and private sector rather should enforce the State's anti-discrimination laws to prevent this operator from conducting business in the State of California unless they can show that they do not discriminate (in the broadest legal meaning) against legally protected characteristics which include sexual orientation..
asbermant (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Full disclosure I am not involved with any religious groups and I have no political party that I associate with. I am pro gay marriage and have nothing against the homosexual community.
This is ridiculous. We are costing Santa Barbara jobs (that were lost when Burger King closed, landscaping etc). The two week delay cost people money and for what reason? What about the lost sales taxes? How about a healthy alternative to hamburger shops?
Chick Fil A has always been proud of its religious backgrounds. It is the only store I know that closes on Sundays in major malls. They are passionate about their beliefs and they have forever intertwined them into their business. Most people that share the same religious beliefs as the owner of CFA but may not say so publicly. It does not mean they are not against gay marriage. The owner was honest about his position on the matter and it was a baited question. Does he fund anti gay rights movements with his profits? Maybe but that is his right, just like the people boycotting have their rights.
In and Out Burger is against gay marriage too. Yet they are open for business serving up fries, placemats and drinks with hidden religious messages. You are giving them your money and they are pushing the bible verses on you. If I was an Atheist, Muslim or Jew I would more offended by a company pushing an agenda rather then one man's honest answer about his beliefs. I have never been handed any religious propaganda by Chick Fil A, I have been by In and Out.
This grandstanding by people who are shocked that a religious man is against gay marriage is stupid and makes our town and country seem stupid and is costing us time and money.
Be offended by the fact that people that believe the same thing as the CFA owner are pouring 100 million dollars a month to elect a guy that agrees with them. Or that Obama had over a billion donated by people that agree with him and he couldn't advance gay rights. You can't point your finger at one and not the others.
If you do not like the company go elsewhere. Do not stop them from their right to open a successful business, employ people that need jobs and pay taxes. Not to mention hiring local landscapers that now must wait two more weeks to get work they likely needed. We do not have to spend our money with CFA but we have no right stopping a legitimate business because it's owner was honest about what he does with his profits.
That is unless we are all willing to disclose what we do with our earned money!
Jason
JMGSB (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Any business that goes there will create jobs. The idea that we should sell out our values for a few minimum wage jobs is ridiculous. I generally don't look into the political beliefs of the businesses I shop at, but when Cathy opened his big, fat, hate-filled cakehole, he changed the game for his business. I don't need to disclose anything about my personal views -- but if, say, I wrote a signed letter to the editor of the Independent saying that I hated Blacks, for example, I would be an idiot not to expect the approbation of all decent people. I can only wonder about the people that spend so much energy defending this idiot, instead of speaking out about hatred.
banjo (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hate mongers? Really? So every person that would be working their hates gays? How stupid of a jump in logic. The ARB is asked to make decisions based on the merits of the project, not political reasons. There is nothing right about shirking their duties on this. Banjo, you really don't understand what an ARB is or how it is mandated to work in the City Charter.
I don't like thier stance either. If you don't like what their owner believes, dont eat there. I don't happen to like their chicken either.
How about this. Rubert Murdock runs Fox. He is an ultra conservative agains gay marriage, gun control, etc. So how about this, boycott Fox News and Fox Sports. NO more football for you!!!
BeachFan (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Very well said, and a very good point, who is really winning here at the bigot game? I believe seperation of state and religion should apply to all. You don't like gay marriage? Tough, because it is depriving someone of their right to their pursuit of happiness, and don't say something dumb like they are going to be marrying children or animals next. Those are subjects that are not even in the same ballfield of gay marriage. You don't like people who express their beliefs against gay marriage or their church's? Tough, they are afforded that right under the First Ammendment. If the despicable Westboro Baptist Church can do what they want, then these other people should also. Remember, the pursuit of happiness should not be hindered, and neither should our other precious rights by BIGOTS ON BOTH SIDES.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Bottom line, if you're going to defend the Constitution, defend all of it. If you're pushing equal rights for all as guaranteed by the Constitution, remember that it comes along with freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
Meanwhile, the ABR has embarassed themselves and the spirit/purpose of the ABR, and should be ashamed. Politics have no place in their decisions, and those that abstained for "political reasons" should be forced to resign. Despicable.
sbdude (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"which is to abstain rather than cast a politically-motivated vote."
REALLY???? Their vote wasn't "POLITICAL"!!!! Smoke another doobie dude your ignorance is pouring out of your ears...
Priceless (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Priceless (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:31 a.m.
Don't like the beliefs of the owner/operator, don't shop there. I won't and I don't care one way or another about gay marriage but do not like store owners pushing their beliefs onto shoppers.
But as for the ABR, they're volunteers, sure, but the volunteer job description does not include their personal socio-political beliefs. This is a board that just last year allowed one of its members, Clay Aurell, to so misbehave as to be penalized by the FPPC, something that rarely happens.
The ABR should start fresh with a new board, all replaced. The policies should also be examined so that once a process has been found tainted by Board actions (or inactions) it should start over again.
at_large (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I believe the real winner here is Chick-Fill-A; never have so many people been talking about them.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The ABR should, as Councilmember Hotchkiss has requested, resign. Their political beliefs have no business in their decision-making as ABR members. I don't agree with ChickFilA's owner either, but free speech is free speech, something that seems lost on those who can't bear another opinion. If you don't like the views, don't eat there.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Time and again, we see how religion drags humanity down. Not up.
Riceman (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've never eaten at a Chick-Fil-A and can't debate the statement that it's a healthy alternative to hamburger joints. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the franchise doesn't use free range chickens and that nugget looks greasy.
It's useful to know if a business owner's beliefs are counter to my own. I don't inadvertently purchase good and services from businesses that fund politicians and policies I disagree with. Boycotting may be an ineffective protest tool, but it's something.
turnleft (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I disagree with what the petroleum companies do, but nobody usually boycotts them for long, and they don't give a damn about us.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let me see if I got this ..... if you don't agree with me, you are a "hater." I will determine what is acceptable, what is politically correct, what should be the norm. I will also decide which topics and social issues are applicable. If YOU disagree, you are a bigot, you are a bad person, you are intolerant, you are a hater. I can call others any name I want and can be intolerant myself, but YOU are the hater. Check.
Scooter (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
RE: In&Out
They've never stated a position on marriage equality and strive to remain apolitical in the public eye- their business is burgers.
What "religeous tracts" they do hand out are so discreet most people don't even notice - just a scripture notation on the bottom of the cup or someplace where you have to purposefully look!
Being Christian is NOT synonymous with being a bigot- often quite the opposite in fact. Its just few loudmouthed bigots who have no other skirt to hide behind other than religion who've given all people of faith a bad name.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh brother it is fast food. Get a life drama queens. Seriously, I hope Chic-fil sues the crap out of the ABR or City of SB or whatever...I wonder how subjective these people have been on other projects due to their OWN beliefs rather than being objective about what makes the city ARCHITECTURALLY correct? Regardless of the guys views on gay marriage, I cannot wait to go eat there! Are they Architects or Hairdressers!?
bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Not all architects are gay, and not all hairdressers are named Bachman. These facts cannot be disputed.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I support Equality in Marriage, I also support Freedom of Speech the actions of the ABR members were wrong. The political statements of management do not have anything to do with land use decisions. If the members can not perform the limited scope of their duties they should resign.
The council should take some type of official action against the board also, their actions may have exposed the city to some liability and a message needs to be sent that is not acceptable.
pointssouth (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Priceless; you really are priceless, when you disagree or don't have a civil response you resort to name calling. Reminds of of that "Obamalony" guy.
rblacumbre (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Looks like the ABR made a big legal mistake. In the administrative arena, if you can't make a unbaised decision due to personal beliefs or personal knowlege of a case, the appropriate thing to do is to recuse yourself-not to abstain. This then allows the rest of the board to make a decision without you. The recused boardmember(s) should ideally leave the room while the deliberations and vote occur so that there is not even the appearance of trying to influence the other boardmembers.
Given the history of corruption of this board, the wholesale replacement of the members of this board is warranted. Any new boardmembers should have to go through a ethics course and an administrative law course. The ABR should also not be allowed to make any decisions without a City Attorney present.
sbkid (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Does the ABR and SB residents know where every business in town stands on this issue, or any other issue??? I feel this is crazy and discriminating against a business that wants to open here.
We are suppose to have the freedom of speech and thought here in the good ole USA? Man, I miss those days
Rsparks (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Rsparks asks:
"Does the ABR and SB residents know where every business in town stands on this issue, or any other issue???"
I can tell you that both Lassen's and City Councilman Dale Francisco donated in support of Prop. 8 (and thus against marriage equality.)
Economic boycotts and embargoes; and the ballot box are the best strategies.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The ABR and other such organizations - love 'em or hate'm, should stick to their stated purpose. To use their authority or other purposes violates the trust that the public has placed in them. Whenever this happens, the public confidence in government in general is diminished. I would urge members of such bodies to restrain their impulse to use their power to impose their views upon everyone else and stick to their assigned tasks.
Robert Ramey
ramey (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The ABR consists of some highly self-serving people. Who among you contributing to this comment thread has ever seen this board in action? I have witnessed these board members rubber-stamp loads of projects that had no merit and have helped to make SB a less happy and healthy place to reside. At least three of the board members are close-minded whackos and most of them have hands out for payola.
It doesn't surprise me in the least that any one of the ABR people decided to abstain. I would never give any of them a gold star for good judgment. They ok'd that Cottage Hospital monstrosity where St. Francis used to be; evidence of their poor taste in architecture and callous disregard for what our town needs. Brian Cernal owns most of them.
Boycott Chick-fil-A. If there is one thing Santa Barbarans know how to do, it is to close their wallets to the unwanted. I predict that Chick-fil-A's days in SB are numbered long before the doors even open.
chilldrinfthenight (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If companies are people and people vote with dollars then the destination of the restaurant’s donations are open for public debate. It very well should be an issue as to where peoples’ hard-earned money goes after the chicken goes down their gullet. This issue has made our little feathered friend the modern martyr as Chick-fil-A laughs all the way to the bank. Watch the poultry be nailed to the cross and pierced by the spear of destiny at the hands of those devious cows on my artist’s blog at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/20...
dregstudios (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think fighting parking fees at our beaches is a much more urgent issue.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I guess Free Speech is less of a Constitutional Right according to the Progressives if they disagree with some wing-nut Baptist. Gosh, I seem to remember the Occupy Whatever group stating they had a right to violate legal city statutes.
If this franchise had a pattern of employment discrimination against Gays I suppose there would be an argument to keep them out of SB; but not by the ABR. Too date there has been zero evidence of this illegal behaviour.
I can't wait for the SB questionnaire that will be sent out to EVERY potential business owner asking, under penalty of law, to tell us what is in their head and to have some SB Diversity Board decide whether or not they are worthy.
Anybody see Rahm Emanuel standing up a couple of weeks ago stating that this franchise did not meet the standards for Chicago values and then having a photo opportunity the next day with the great American bigot and anti-Semite Farrakhan? The hypocrisy is too thick to believe...
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Of course the owners of In n'Out are also against gay marriage. They're religious Christians. Anybody who states otherwise is full of it.
Lars (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Chic fil a has the best fries hands down! Hate has never tasted so delicious.
tacobellmike (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why is it that someone who owns a business is not allowed to have an opinion contrary to the ABR's or anyone else's for that matter and voice that opinion? And where is this proof of discrimination? If you are architects, then do your job and choose not to dine there if you feel contrary to Chic Fil's belief system. Perhaps we should survey all restaurants/retail outlets before they come to SB to find out their owners personal belief system before we allow them to come to our little town. Boy for a place that considers themselves a world destination, this place pulls some backwards ass $%#t sometimes.
bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hey, nice healthy online debate, folks.
Yeah, it's just crappy fastfood; let people vote with their patronage dollars.
Since the CEO is loud about his dislike of gay marriage, and struts about parading his ultra-Christian virtues, I'll never set foot in his winged establishment.
That's my vote.
QED
DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Show me proof that In and Out's owners have in any way expressed opposition to marriage equality?
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Freedom of speech
Freedom to eat
Freedom of choice
I may not agree with where they choose to donate their profits but I defend their right to do it. Many businesses/corporations donate to organizations I don't agree with. That's life in a free country.
Somewhat better quality than most fast food places; but not as good as most family owned and run businesses.
passagerider (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINI...
bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have witnessed the ABR in process and seen some of their, shall we say, out of bounds results. The ugly blue roof near the Montecito border. The yellow home with the gray asphalt roof (Goleta style) in the Riviera area. The redwood prefab modernistic home in the Mission area. All are totally out of "character with the neighborhood" - and maintaining that character is a prime directive for the ABR. Need fewer architects and more citizens on ABR. Fire 'em all.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let the ABR members proceed within the ABR guidelines. The People will speak. As it should be. I encourage all who appreciate civil rights to stand up and speak! The restaurant should fail within 24 months. I say: "Boycott Chick fil A! "
SpankyMcGraw (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not only are In n'Out's owners religious Christians, but they're also strong supporters of conservative Republican politicians. Read the writing on the wall. I'm not an investigative journalist, but it's beyond obvious that they share the same anti gay marriage beliefs that all other right wing Christian conservatives hold. It doesn't change anything that they haven't been caught on tape admitting to it. No more In n'Out for you, sir!
Lars (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You still present no actual evidence other than they are Christian. In fact In n' Out has an apolitical history.
A cursory Google has found nothing other than innuendo and stereotyping.
From:
http://badmouth.net/in-n-outs-bible-p...
Q: Do the Bible passages mean In-n-Out supports radical anti-abortion groups, intelligent design, anti-homosexual agenda or ground-beef-based faith healing?
A: We have no idea what the Snyders do with their money. It’s possible that they spend it in ways that we wouldn’t approve of. But hey, McDonald’s is mowing down the rainforests, Carl’s Jr. employs Paris Hilton and we have it on good authority that the guy in the Burger King outfit molests sheep. (OK we made that part up.)
The point is it is entirely possible to be religious without being intolerant. We know that In-n-Out makes great hamburgers, they pay their employees well and provide them with full benefits and paid vacations. Sounds like they are Christians in the good sense of the word to me.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you donate big money to conservative Republican politicians, yes you support their beliefs! Campaign donations are public record. Case closed.
Lars (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In the apolitcal history of the Snyders, which politician have they supported?
You'd do far better protesting Lassen's Health Foods and City Councilman Dale Francisco who have publicly and financially opposed marriage equality (via Prop. 8) than throwing spaghetti at people just because they're Christian.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
After watching the documentary film 'Food Inc', you won't want to eat at Chick-fil-A regardless of your beliefs.
EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The abstentions were an effort at comity. Consider that Dan Cathy, Chic-Fil-A religious nut and COO Coo funds at least a couple torturous anti-gay and hateful organizations and that Cathy is credited as saying “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say 'we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage' and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about.” Cathys' position is ignorant, bigoted, possibly hateful, and purported as tolerance.
As for Mayor Schneiders capitulation to corporate style government perhaps she should stay at home, barefoot and pregnant.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lars the President was using the same language as Mr Cathy for quite a while so did that mean everyone who donated to him when he ran for office the 1st time was against equality?
pointssouth (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don McD, wouldn't it suck if a government bureaucrat denied you due process simply because they found your politics abhorrent?
I think the ABR members' intentions were good, but their actions inappropriate. Mayor Schneider's call for equal rights illustrates that equal rights are for everyone- even those we disagree with.
Of course I support a boycott, tho such a statement from me is meaningless because I can't eat that kinda food!
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Not all architects are gay" What about Phillip Johnson? (How's THAT for esoteric?)
AZ's first comment summed up how I feel.
What is scary is that eventually the logic will end up being "not in our town" fanaticism. Take it to the logical end; if someone's views offend, some board or panel can say "we don't want people with those views living in our community so they have 30 days to get out".
Instead of denying a person the right to earn a living, those opposed to Chick-Fil-A should come up with better arguments to the CEO's views but evidently they can't so they simply decide to ban the person from opening up a business.
As for gay marriage, if there were a separation of church and state, (i.e. no license required to get married) this would not be an issue. Instead of denying one the right to run a business simply because their views offend, the government should get out of the business of marriage. That way, they could not discriminate against gay people in this area.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So let's have the government decide what is right and wrong for the individual! And let's persecute everyone who has a different view or who expresses themselves! Oh, and let's void the constitution!
passagerider (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Every McDonald's commercial ends the same way: Prices and participation may vary. I wanna open a McDonald's and not participate in anything. I wanna be a stubborn McDonald's owner. 'Cheeseburgers? Nope! We got spaghetti and blankets.'" -R.I.P. Mitch Hedberg
Ken is correct, all this hub bub about Chik-fil-A caused a backlash with Chik-fil-A Appreciation Day that resulted in record sales for the company.
Meanwhile at our local beaches they are trying to implement beach parking fees, Lois Capps is turning our Gaviota beaches into a warzone involving the Dept. of Homeland Security, innocent patients and recreational cannabis users are still being thrown in cages and of course the slaughter of innocent Arabs overseas continues.
loonpt (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with loonpt. There are more important issues to worry about than trying to restrict the free speech of an American company. Almost all companies have a culture and mission statement they try to nurture. I can't agree with a number of them but they have their right to speak.
I am just shocked (or perhaps shouldn't be shocked) that most discussions nationally have been focused on restricting their rights.
We have the right to disagree but let's chill out and have a beer at the beach and watch the sunset.
passagerider (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The same people demanding the ouster of these people of conscience would likely argue that doctors, nurses, and whole health systems can deny women contraception or wanted healthcare based on personal beliefs. Work is an expression of who we are. Good for you ABR board member, do not betray your beliefs.
hippocrit (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank goodness for UCSB-
A Jobs program for the professional complainers-advocates- and those in training-activists.
garfish (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 9:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yo, garfish, can you read? What's this thread got to do with UCSB??! Try to stick with the topic, eh? Professional complainer, indeed, dude.
DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This whole issue is a huge distraction.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Intentional distraction. This is the election cycle and it is no mistake that the right wing is stirring it up again with the same old divisive issues; God, Guns and Gays. The national conservative strategy to win at the ballot box is fear and hate. Denying minorities and the poor access to the voting booth is another strategy.
Recall locally how we got Francisco, Self, Hotchkiss and Rowse. Fear of bulb-outs, 60 foot tall buildings, Medical Marijuana, the homeless and divisiveness over certain brown ones residing in over-used and under-represented neighborhoods. Fear and hate is a winning conservative strategy when you have a foolish electorate.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
McD knows well about fear and hate - he's a major practitioner. But I digress from the actual issue.
Remember you guys, if you're a "Progressive", then free speech doesn't apply to those who disagree with you. Right, hippocrit? And because I believe in this idiot's (Cathy's) right to free speech then according to you I also believe "that doctors, nurses, and whole health systems can deny women contraception or wanted healthcare based on personal beliefs". You have no concept of free speech, logic, or fact-based debate.
I have no patience for people such as our ABR who insert their political view (illegally, according to the city attorney) into an apolitical (by definition) position of authority. This is not somehow honorable behavior true to one's beliefs. It is dishonorable and unethical behavior by unelected public officials. Fire them all.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
August 8, 2012 at 11:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What kind of integrity is there in a pseudonym calling for a mass termination.
And I haven't condoned the ABR action to this Chic-Fil-A provocation. I've only offered an explanation. This episode isn't exactly like expecting a negro to shine your shoes just before heading out to a KKK meeting, but it still must feel pretty bad. Dan Cathy the COO is not the victim here. He is the provocateur. Dan Cathys inflammatory wrath of god comments belongs nowhere, or if anywhere, in a theocratic or intolerant communist state.
And many of you are subscribing to the conservative inspired 'vote with your dollar' and if 'you don't like it don't buy it' philosophy. In a representative Democratic Republic that does not get you your just representation. That gets us all right-wing-corporate fascism.
It could be argued that this Chic-Fil-a corporation is using the communitys' 'commons' and the Dan Cathy comment are seemingly a violation of our community adopted standards and could be subject to this mild protest or effort at comity or abstentions.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McD,
You sound just like a Fascist. The Problem with Civil Rights is there is always an unsavory side that you have to live with if you want the Big Picture, Freedom and Liberty.
The Mayor penned a Good Letter. I am not in favor of Flag Burning or XXX Porno but I realize its the unsavory part of the 1st Amendment.
Chic-Fil-a, I will vote with my dollars and not eat there but I will defend to the Death the COO's right to say what he wants.
You want to constrain Rights that do not Assimilate into your BORG Universe, just like you want to constrain or ignore the 2nd Amendment.
Civil Rights are not a pick one from column A and one from B issue, it is All or Nothing.
If Chic-Fil-a discriminates against employees, then by all means file a Federal Lawsuit against them but don't discriminate against the COO's Civil Rights, as to Free Speech,its a slippery slope the devolves into Fascism.
This BORG Assimilation Mantra of modifying Human Behavior until it suits your Utopian Plan is just as dangerous as Homophobia .
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well all I've done is state the facts. And yes I support freedom of speech for everyone including Mr. Cathy, the religious nut and COO coo of Chic-Fil-A. But surely there is a difference between individual free speech and individuals spending vast sums of monies that drowns out the individual liberties and freedoms of others, especially of that of minorities.
And as I've humorously suggested to the Mayor I suggest less humorously to those attaching with pseudonyms that, perhaps you should stay at home barefoot and pregnant or picking cotton in the glorious slavery days which is where these religious nuts would perhaps still have you all if we had not progressed from the not so distant past.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McD,
I hope you have fun in the BORG Collective because I will not Assimilate.
I try my best to tolerate, Progressive Nuts, which are no different than the Religious Nuts, no difference at all.
Both would enslave the populace, History teaches this Truth, to try to achieve Utopia, which always FAILS.
Extreme Nuts have slaughtered more populations in the history of the World trying to achieve their Perfect World than any other single aspiration of Mankind, far Right or Left, same, same.
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good or bad, right or wrong Chick-fil-A is the winner here. Just imagine what all this exposure would cost them in advertising dollars. Because we as a nation are so divided on this and other issues there are more than enough people who support them and they (Chick-fil-A) will profit from this. Sad but true.
rblacumbre (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Valley - Exactly right. If Chic-Fil-A has committed a crime or a tort, take them to court, that's where it belongs.
For government to arbitrarily deny services to people or corporations they disagree with smacks of facism.
Maybe they want to visualize themselves as fighting for the rights of others, but in reality, all they are doing is denying people equal treatment under the law without due process.
Botany (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@howgreen: thank you for pointing out McD's so obvious hypocrisy.
And, McD, as I have patiently explained on a number of occasions, I remain anonymous because of people like you who would damage my business because of a difference in political beliefs. I commented under my own name where it counts - to the Mayor and City Council.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Extreme Nuts have slaughtered more populations in the history of the World trying to achieve their Perfect World than any other single aspiration of Mankind, far Right or Left"
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 11:27 a.m.
The French Revolution; The Soviet Union; Khmer Rouge; China under Mao. People don't learn from history. How long before these "progressives" make Christianity a crime under "hate speech" laws, as opposed to being able to have the confidence in their viewpoint without having to legislate people they don't like out of their world.
Safe to say the "tolerance" myth is being exposed, and as I said earlier, if we take the government out of marriage, then gays won't be discriminated against (at least in this context) and those who don't believe in gay marriage won't feel imposed upon either. Sadly, the practicality of such live-and-let-live Libertarian concepts don't appeal to emotional idealists.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Waaaahhhhhhhhh. The owner of a restaurant doesn't agree with me. Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Lars (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
their name is scary, Chik filet? you going to filet a live chick? they probably do with some hideous chicken fileting machine that cuts their beak off and hangs it upside down by it's feet on a conveyor belt and slits it's throat so the blood leaks out, then, still partly alive,it's feathers are ripped out, it is ripped into filets and chicken by product or boiled alive. all this for the hungry people of Satan Barbara.
GluteousMaximus (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
They probably just make that chicken paste stuff and pour it into molds like McD's (not Don) and others do. They literally put a whole chicken (feathers, beak et al) into a grinder. They then have add ammonia and other chemicals to kill germs, then they add "chicken flavoring" to mask the ammonia. Then into a mold, into the freezer, onto the grill and around your waist it goes.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 9, 2012 at 7:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ironic that people will protest a Chick-Fil-A because of their stance against gay marriage, yet continue to buy petroleum products from countries that execute homosexuals. (They also execute for adultery)
CManSB (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 12:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey, Gluteous, maybe Chik-fil-A is really a voodoo group, torturing chickens for their own pleasure, then selling the remains.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
billclausen: "The French Revolution; The Soviet Union; Khmer Rouge; China under Mao. People don't learn from history. How long before these "progressives" make Christianity a crime under "hate speech" laws, as opposed to being able to have the confidence in their viewpoint without having to legislate people they don't like out of their world."
I see your The French Revolution (although getting rid of the monarchy and the Church in France was really a good thing in the long run); The Soviet Union; Khmer Rouge; China under Mao...
... and I'll raise you the Crusades (all nine of them), the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, the Holocaust (Hitler said he was doing 'God's will'), the thousands of children abused by the Catholic church, the Salem witch hunts, the genocide against Native Americans, the Cortez massacres in Mexico... I can TOTALLY keep going.
If you want to play this 'which side is worse', you won't fair very well. At all.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually Ken as far as fast food restaurants go, not that I've eaten there before, but Chick-fil-A has a pretty high quality product. Maybe not to the level of In-n-Out, but I believe they are better than Wendy's which I believe is the the #1 in quality for national fast food chains (not that I eat at national fast food chains, but if I had no other choice than to eat at one, Wendy's is the best bet). They do in fact use whole chicken breast meat and I believe the quality of their chickens is superior to KFC and other fastfood chicken.
As far as helping the community, I know that a Chick-fil-A in San Diego was always donating free food to community events. They really do try to help benefit the communities they are apart of.
I think the guy who made these statements on gay marriage is in his 90s. What do you expect? I think I saw a calculation in regards to the total revenue of Chick-fil-A vs. the amount that gets donated to these horribly anti-liberty "pro-family" groups and I think if you bought a sandwich there you'd end up with less than a half a penny going to these groups.
Compare that with going to McDonalds and having a good portion of your money going to Monsanto who then funds politicians to push for the military industrial complex as well as the corporatization and monopoly ownership of all of our farming infrastructure. I think I'd choose Chick-fil-A.
But alas, Chick-fil-A uses the notorious ingredient found in pretty much all fastfood, MSG, so I don't really see myself eating there.
loonpt (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you want to play this 'which side is worse', you won't fair very well. At all.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 11:01 a.m
I'm not trying to do that, I'm merely pointing out that the Left also is capable of intolerance and that it's intolerance itself that's the issue.
By the way, remember what happened last time we debated? Since then, I've discovered an even worse George Harrison video, and I know of one by Ringo that's so horrible I won't even mention it, lest you be given nightmares.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We may not be able to ethically prevent Chick Fill-A from opening a restaurant on private property in SB; but we can let our County Board of Supervisers know what we think of any proposal to charge parking fees at our beaches, which are our common trust.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One more example of how this City's ABR is out of control. They are big fish in a small pond with huge egos. Just take a project before them (as I have done several times) and listen to them pontificate on the style of an outdoor light fixture or whether the brick in a driveway (residence) looks right or how a trash enclosure is too visible to the street. All with no regard to the cost of the project or delays or impact on the owners. It goes on and on. I hope Chick Fil A sues the City. I hope these members are removed from the board if that is possible. Obviously they don't know how to behave as City representatives or what their responsibilities are as board members.
prjaco (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And thank you Councilman Hotchkiss.
prjaco (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
78 posts, and Lars takes it!!
bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Come on liberals and democrats, wake up. I'm all for banning Chik-Fil-A for their homophobic bs, but seriously, you tolerate a lot worse every day, and even benefit from it, seemingly without a second thought. We tolerate Raytheon, the deportation of migrant folks, companies like ATK making depleted uranium weaponry, police harassment of homeless folks while buildings sit empty, the UC's involvement in the development and manufacture of military technology including nuclear weapons... you even accept the sponsorship of shady companies for your cushy elite events, pride fest, and political campaigns. Are these politicians really talking social justice or are they just jumping on a convenient issue to look self-righteous? Ban Chik-Fil-A but don't leave the war profiteers and military/police/surveillance and other shady corporations around to fund your next ga...
Wrench (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
*next campaign, that is.
Wrench (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So if the majority of you believe that Dan Cathys actions should not be contested in the 'free speech' arena or that 'vote with your dollars' is a form of governance then certain minorities are in big trouble. Free speech is great and it works both ways. Legislation by 'vote with your dollars' is as representative as by 'popular vote.' With both methods you have a rabble that will tar and feather, enslave, deny rights, lock-up and persecute. Again, if you're with Dan Cathy you're with the fascists.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 6:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
billclausen, you're way too easy on yourself:
Previous to your last post you never said "it's intolerance itself that's the issue" -- a comment so specious as to be a tautology -- rather you suggested "the 'tolerance' myth is being exposed" an idea in search of both definition and meaning.
binky (anonymous profile)
August 10, 2012 at 9:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's to a clear vote for human decency. It was completely appropriate for the Board to vote their conscience against unfounded prejudice and abject bigotry.
If you ignore your conscience, and vote for Corporate discrimination of a group of good law-abiding citizens you're just as bad as the bigots.
The Owner of Chick Fillet (sp) says he doesn't however discriminate against Gays.... Ya think?
If he loses money on the deal, that's his cross to bear.
itsacrockof (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2012 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So we should deny government services to people if we don't like their politics?
And if they're accused of committing a crime, they should be charged in the court of public opinion rather than in a court of law?
Sounds like a crock to me.
Botany (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2012 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Binky: If you can't read between the lines, I can't help you other than to say try to grasp the overall meaning and continuity. "Specious", you're getting quite cranky as you see your long-held beliefs being exposed. Don't feel bad though, about 25 years ago I was in the same boat you are, then my idealism got shattered by reality smacking me in the head.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2012 at 8:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, if you're with Dan Cathy you're with the fascists.
DonMcDermott
In which of the two contexts?...denying the right to marry?...or allowing him to run a business?
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2012 at 8:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you're not with us, you're against us.. or some ultimatum of the sort..
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2012 at 9:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
At any rate, we should rejoice in the fact we all seem to be believe in marriage equality regardless of semantics. The only truly divisive issue is rooted in revenge at this point in the dialogue. Let's move forward and address more urgent issues we can have a positive impact on- like beach parking fees.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 12:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@ Botany
I see a clear difference between what you call "politics" and what we call "decency" and "equality". Crime? Discrimination against Gays and Lesbians is a crime.
@ Ken_Volok
Beach Parking Fees.... BIG Problem!
The right for Gays to Marry..... NO Problem!
itsacrockof (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 1:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So anybody who is against gay marriage should not have the right to own a business; is that the sum of our "progressive" city? (Rhetorical question I know)
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 1:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@crock - And what do we do to people accused of crimes?
Do we try them in a court of law or deny them government services?
I can see the headline now. Man charged with rape, so the state abstains on his driver's license application.
Where's the relevance?
Discrimination is a crime. If that's what they did, we should be taking them to court, not denying them government services without so much as a trial because we think they are guilty.
Botany (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 7:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This rephensible company and its crappy food are NOT welcome here in SB. I will stand with the GLBT community in picketing and demonstrating Day 1, if they get approved and ever open. The owners of this toxic food dump give generously to anti-gay causes and to conservative politicians who further their decidedly toxic X-ian agenda.
Since everyone knows "X-ian values" is an oxymoron, I will not go gently into that good night if these idiots are allowed to set up their little HATE stand of lousy chicken.
Draxor (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Many Christians and people of all faiths support equality, let's not get fooled into being haters ourselves. Only "fundamentalists" (aka fundies, extremists, Taliban) are the ones you hear about on the news because they're the most outrageous and sell soap.
May LGBT people identify as Christian, Muslim, Jewish ect-
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am buoyed by the choice of Representative Paul Ryan by Mitt Romney.
We now have a pair of candidates clearly capable of not only meeting the upcoming onslaught of dirt sure to be thrown their way, but withstanding that onslaught valiantly.
Their defence will simply be, there is no dirt to be found.
Go ahead, take a look...no really, go look!
In fact, it has already begun. What this choice completes, is the formation of a team in support of a fundamental belief in the U.S. Constitution, and the people of the Republic that document represents with the inherent and solemn promise of an unwavering adherence to that belief.
It is without doubt at any level, should Team Romney be successful in its bid for the White House, said team will take on one of the worst economies this nation has yet seen in its long, unique and exceptional history.
Never, I submit, will you hear from them, the sad refrain we have for so long become accustomed to by the current President, that the difficulties attendant to solving the economic challenges our country now faces, are the fault of the previous administration.
Instead, we can expect the kind of Leadership responsible men willingly volunteer to take on and provide solutions for, without pointing back and blaming those that have gone before, because they have not the skills, nor the understanding to implement.As most former residents of 1900 Pennsylvania Avenue, they are volunteering to take on these challenges knowingly accepting the inherent possibility of failure, while planning for success and accepting in either case, full responsibility for the outcome whatever it may be.
Team Romney & Ryan bring to the table the managerial experience and fiscally responsible pragmatism necessary to guide our great country from the imminent abyss of economic collapse, to the birth of an era of a new American Exceptionalism.
For three and a half long and painful years we have been dragged by the hand down the road of wealth redistribution and class warfare, forcibly made to watch as the investment of multiple millions of American tax dollars into poorly administered “green energy” companies and ill-conceived “bank bailouts” has gone thoroughly unrewarded.
This administration has engaged in, blindly promoted, and continues to promote such investments while producing nothing, as Paul Ryan stated in his VP acceptance speech, but “debt, doubt and despair”.
With luck, Team Romney & Ryan can now assist Mr. Obama with the fulfillment of at least one promise he made to the American people:
“I will be held accountable. I’ve got four years. If I don’t have this done in three years, then is this gonna (sic) be a one-term proposition.” Barack Obama 02 FEB 2009
Let’s help Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan show Mr. Obama and his entire administration the door!
I’ll pay for the U-Haul!
Jay Sigal
Elyria, Ohio
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 7:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@MGBJAY [Jay Sigal] your ludicrous screed of course has nothing to do with this thread about Chick-fil-A, and since you're from Ohio you are naturally terrified that Pres. Obama will take your state this Nov. Writing about team Romney's "managerial experience and fiscally responsible pragmatism " uh, let's think of how Obamacare is based on Romneycare, how the fiscal responsibility entails JAW-DROPPING TAX CUTS FOR THE 1%, and the howls of laughter at Mitt's clumsy foreign adventure recently [British PM Cameron, a conservative, called Mitt "Nowhere Man].
Hey, who paid you to send this to SB? Try to figure out a way to keep Ohio in your party.
DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"In fact, it has already begun. What this choice completes, is the formation of a team in support of a fundamental belief in the U.S. Constitution," -MGBJAY- (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2012 at 7:03 p.m.
MGBJAY: I don't know if you're having us on or are serious but Mitt Romney does *not* respect the constitution. With apologies to the other bloggers who are probably sick to death of my incessant nattering about the NDAA the simple fact is Romney, Obama, as well as the majority of the House and Senate support the idea (per the NDAA if you're not aware) that if one is *suspected* of aiding terrorists, that person can be jailed indefinitely without trial.
This is NOT the basis upon which the U.S. is founded, but about 90% of the voters don't care about the constitution, they only want their party to win. Fear can blind people to true dangers.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 5:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Chick-fil-A is delicious. I believe that. I don't believe that it is any more or less delicious because the president of the company doesn't share my personal views regarding marriage.
There seems to be at least some hypocrisy in the criticism of the religiously-based socially conservative views of Mr. Cathy. It's apparently not OK for him to believe that marriage can only be between a man and a woman but it is OK for us to tell him that what he believes is wrong. That's convenient.
Kingprawn (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually DrDAN...I spent 20 years of my life living in the GOLETA (Arboleda Road) & Santa Barbara (1600 block of Bath Street) area and enjoyed breakfast for many of those years @ CODY's on Hollister Ave - in fact the photograph that is on their wall above the cash register is one of many that are on walls of businesses all over Santa Barbara...(just so you know I am not giving you a line of crap)...
...I actually left CA to provide coverage for my aging parent 3 years ago...it was not a choice I wanted to make, but one that I was obliged to make because of a family need.
My criticism of the current administration has always been civil and well mannered, even though fervently opposed to everything...and I do mean everything, stands for.
Quite unlike the criticism that one reads in this thread regarding a company whose owner has merely expressed his constitutional right to express his ideas. But like many of the politically uncivil residents in Santa Barbara, unless one agrees with the radical left-wing PC mentality, you are reviled and called everything but a citizen...apparently you subscribe to that notion of expression as well.
That is unfortunate because it limits the opportunities for civil and intelligent discussion regarding matters that have societal importance.
As has many times been noted: while being touted as the Party of Tolerance, Democrats, especially those to the far end of that spectrum, appear through their words and actions to be woefully intolerant of those that disagree with their views.
Where are you in that spectrum. No assumptions made on my end as of yet...
MGBJAY
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No. We shouldn't tolerate bigots, bullies and hate purported as love.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, Thank you Don...
...and just for the sake of clarification for all here reading...precisely just who is the "we" you reference, suggesting yourself as a "the official" alleged spokesperson for some larger non-defined group of apparently like minded individuals...
...and further, how do the "We" you speak for identify those who would be deemed "bigots, bullies" and those purveyors of "hate purported as love"...
MGBJAY
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 7:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Of course, Don is the self-appointed adjudicator of exactly who the bullies, bigots and hateful are. He is especially qualified due to his objectivity and impartiality.
Botany (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 7:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@MGBJAY you are one of those terribly frightened folks who want to worship Constitution like the Bible...when you write about our country being dragged down "the road of wealth redistribution and class warfare" you have it exactly backwards: the elite 5% have waged class warfare against the rest of us and it's a demonstrable fact that since 1970 WEALTH HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED UPWARD. Look up the Gini coefficient for USA. You fail to response to my comment about Nowhere Man Romney's idea for JAW-DROPPING TAX CUTS FOR THE HYPER-WEALTHY, his pandering to Sheldon Adelson's millions, his ridiculous position on Israeli settlements [read OCCUPATION] of the West Bank, his acrobatic flip flops on Medicare/death penalty/health care and many other positions.
Behind your veil of wanting tolerance and civil discussion you are extraordinarily far RIGHT yourself...you answer NONE of my earlier critiques of your thread comment, but good to know you used to eat at Cody's. When you wrote we need to return to 'American Exceptionalism' one's got to laugh: it's a discredited view, an excuse for continuing the military empire we have, and your weird faith in team Romney is very strange. Stay in Ohio, you fit in much better there, I'm sure.
DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks MGBJAY, Romney's name is now linked to this local controversy on Google and other search engines.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 13, 2012 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"So anybody who is against gay marriage should not have the right to own a business; is that the sum of our "progressive" city? (Rhetorical question I know)" -Bill Clausen
Anyone...anyone...Beuller?
Let me see if I understand the logic behind many of the comments posted here: Mr. Cathy's more traditional (old fashioned) beliefs/values are unacceptable because they contribute to a culture of intolerance but mirroring his behavior by tearing apart, criticizing and dismissing his beliefs is acceptable?
Kingprawn (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To KEN: Not sure what this observation actually translates into...but I am not concerned about what you mentioned, if what you suggest means that I should be. EVERYTHING we do on the net is attached to something somewhere, so considering that & considering the tambre of the conversation, what difference can it make?
MGBJAY
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To DR DAN:
Much to the contrary...I am not frightened by much of anything any longer, especially proponents of such hyperbolic rants as yours. And not frightened so much as greatly disappointed in the fact that so many of your ilk have such a destructive and hateful view of the country that has afforded you so very much.
I do not "worship the Constitution" but rather I would use words like Respect, Believe in...Support.
In fact, I put my life on the line in its defense, through the donning of the uniform of the branch of the military which I proudly wore for almost three years while serving in South Viet-Nam.
And I did that to defend your right to hold and express the beliefs you apparently subscribe to. However massively I may disagree with them. And, if I may borrow a few words from your President "Let me be clear"...I vehemently disagree with the beliefs which you say you subscribe to.
I am intensely aware that Mitt Romney is not a "perfect" contender for the office. I am very aware of all that he appears to be and there are some things that I disagree with...none of them however, egregious in my opinion. Even moreso, I find that Mitt Romney is a man of strong faith & from all accounts is a good parent, an excellent businessman and a dedicated leader when in such a position, maintaining a high level of ethics, morals and courage. And to head you off from that pass before you even begin to go there...go and read ALL of the history of BAIN CAPITAL prior to tossing at me all of the "left wing media crap" that is going through your head while you read this. Just do a WIKI search of the actual facts and take a look at the numbers in terms of both what the financial results as well as the human resource results were under his guidance. Raw numbers or the percentages...either way will be an education for you.
Yes...I believe in TEAM ROMNEY & RYAN!
I think they make a substantial team for the race at hand. I believe they can pull us back to the center.
And even if I take all of your criticisms of that team as being even moderately accurate...even if I go a step further and allow you the courtesy of being 100% correct in your allegations...
...wait for it!... (continued)
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
(continued)...
...Personally, I think TEAM ROMNEY & RYAN is a significantly stronger choice than the team that has inhabited the White House for the past three and a half years, and I will support them with all that I have to contribute to the effort.
Personally, I strongly believe in "American Exceptionalism"...it is what has brought the United States to the position of leadership it currently holds. Further, I believe American Exceptionalism is the reason you and I are able to communicate the way we are in this medium...it is the reason that most of the world is able to wake up each day and pursue its activities in the way that they do because American Exceptionalism was triumphant in bringing WWII to a successful end.
American Exceptionalism is what put men on the moon and successfully landed research equipment on Mars a week ago!
It is American Exceptionalism that brought you your Ipad, Iphone, Ipod. American Exceptionalism created and defended to the death, with the shed blood of millions of Exceptional Americans, your right to hold the opinions you so sorrowfully cling to.
American Exceptionalism is not, as you stated DR DAN, "a discredited view"!
You however, seem to eschew that view.
We are clearly at polar opposites in the belief of what our country is. I will nevertheless stand for my view being the correct view, because if my view fails, yours will be the view we are left with, and that will be, in my opinion, the demise of the United States as we know it!
Before attempting to bludgeon me with all of the emotional hyperbole rambling around in your head right now...take a moment to become aware...bring to the conversation the civility (toleration) that is always espoused by your side, albeit seldom demonstrated, or do not bother.
As for your allusion to Sheldon Anderson & his funding of whatever on the right...may I draw your attention to the following:
Left Wing institutional funding providers of record:
Rob Stein’s Democracy Alliance, George Soros’ Open Society Institute, Tim Gill’s Gill Foundation, Albert Dwoskin's Dwoskin Family Foundation, Drummond Pike’s Tides Foundation, Stephen Silberstein’s Stephen Silberstein Foundation, SEIU, ACORN...and on and on...
...each side has its financial supporters…so what is your point…what…you didn’t know that?
DR DAN...back up and take a look at the blessings you have in your life and tell me sir, where else on the planet could you espouse your beliefs so loudly & publicly...were it not for the accident of birth that you happened to hit the ground here! In a country that tolerates your views and the public expression thereof without penalty!
That sir, is American Exceptionalism!
A vote for ROMNEY & RYAN will preserve that ideal...a vote for the other guy...not so much!
MGBJAY
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@MGBJAY ... although it's not against the Indy's rules, it's considered poor etiquette to "hijack a thread" by changing the subject.
Send in a letter so you can start your own discussion thread.
Also, you should avoid posting personal information like your cell phone number as you apparently did here:
http://sallykohn.com/2012/07/debating...
EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good one @EastBeach. MGBJay has posted some seriously tangential stuff.
@MGBJAY,
It should go without saying that when you call people names, you discount everything else that you have said or, in this case, typed. That vitriol soaked rant directed at Sally Kohn was so disrespectful. It is a good habit to always treat others well and with respect regardless of their beliefs. That includes Mr. Cathy...and with that, back to our original programming.
Kingprawn (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Woooooo...I'm tangential...and in a serious way! Wooooo!
That's really bad...right?
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The "B" must stand for "boor". I suggest not giving attention to people who are desperate for it.
So has Dale Francisco weighed in on this? Perhaps he wants people to forget his position is considered "extreme-right" by conventional standards.
In addition, every medical marijuana dispensary in town was targetted and denied due process for political reasons as well.
Once you deny someone their rights, you could just as easily be next.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Attention: (PROGRAM INTERRUPT)
Like trying to damage someones business because the owner of that business says something that disagrees with your personal belief...making your personal belief more important than his, thereby giving you authority to actually justify doing damage to the local economy by crippling a business that pays it's share of sales taxes, employment taxes, business license fees, costs of construction, etc., etc. directly into the community that is already battling huge budget issues...
...yeah...now THAT'S not tangential, right!
In fact the particular Chick Fill A business that is in Santa Barbara may be a Franchise, owned by a local Santa Barbara resident, that does not necessarily share Mr. Cathy's specific opinion...(what if?)
...well, facts be damned...let's do our best to harm him and his business anyway because our cause is more important than his business or all of the jobs at that business that local Santa Barbara residents earn at least a portion of their living with...yeah, let's go with that!
MGBJAY
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One thing that is clear: all of the ABR that did this to Chick-fil-A voted for Obama in 2008 when he clearly stated that marriage should be only between a man and woman. Wow. Massive hypocrisy.
Another thing that is clear: 9 out of 10 of the people who supported the ABR and who are posting here (above) also voted for Obama in 2008.
willy88 (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"The "B" must stand for "boor". I suggest not giving attention to people who are desperate for it." - Quote Ken...
Dear, Dear Ken...you denounced name calling and then you call me a name...oh wait, but I get it...its OK for you to do the name calling...'cause, uhmmm, oh yeah...'cause its you!
...hmmmm, again, your opinion is more valid than those that disagree with you...
...and then you go on to further demonstrate what I was called out on, which was to be "tangential" by bringing into the conversation the "pot store" crackdown in a conversation that is about Chick Fill A...
...it should not, since you raised the issue, go unnoticed that ALL (read that each and every) pot store in the state of California had the same consequence visited upon them, NOT just those in Santa Barbara...which you write in a way so as to make it seem that SB is the only community that has been singled out of the entire state for this action... as their existence is in direct violation of FEDERAL LAW.
The following from the NY TIMES 30 JUNE 2012:
"Acting on federal law, which considers all possession and distribution of marijuana to be illegal, California’s four United States attorneys, working with the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Internal Revenue Service, have shut down at least 500 dispensaries statewide in the last eight months by sending letters to operators, landlords and local officials, warning of criminal charges and the seizure of assets. The United States attorneys said the dispensaries were violating not only federal law but also state law."
Introduced merely as a humorous side note...tangential as that may be.
MGBJAY
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My sympathies to Ohio.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MGBJAY: I'll join in the name-calling by calling you a name: How about "Frank"? Frank's a nice name; many people name their children Frank. Frank Sinatra was a great singer, and President Obama might even have a turtle named Frank.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There's even a folksinger named Phranc.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dan Cathy has every right to speak out his personal views about gay marriages, etc., and as stated FAR above I'll vote with my $ by never entering one of his fat-farm franchises. Gosh, MGBJA, it's true that the "tambre [sic] of the conversation" in this thread has gone awry, as EastBeach notes, ....how did that happen?
Who is the emotional ranter here?
While I certainly respect your service in our armed forces for three years, your condescending comment "I did that to defend your right to hold and express the beliefs you apparently subscribe to" is self-serving twaddle. As a proud ilk member, don't need you defending me, MGBJA. Oh yes, it's Sheldon Adelson, I believe, try to get your donors' name right, RIGHT?
Back to the ABR's decision, please.
PS Willy88, nice to know you're clairvoyant, and if 9 of 10 of these folks in this ginormous thread are for "the other guy" [which I doubt], glad to know you're reading them and consorting with them; you are learning!.
DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 14, 2012 at 10:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
While I do think gays should have the right to marry, this deal shows America at it's finest. This represents the first amendment - anyone is allowed to express their opinion. Just because it's a topic you don't like or agree with, does NOT mean their business can be shut down. People can choose to not go there or in some cases, people lined up outside waiting to buy food in their support. Good job!
Muggy (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2012 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Evening Dr. DAN...
...ah, let me share with you a few facts...re: Chick Fil A & your characterization of it as "his fat-farm franchises"...
...it took about three minutes to find a plethora of FACTS to dispute your “fat farm” claim. Did you know that Chick-Fil-A is one of the few fast-food eateries in the country whose menu has but 1 item that contains in excess of 600 calories.
It's true.
And that Menu item is a milk shake. In fact MOST of their menu choices are below 500 calories individually. But I will leave it to you to find at least 1 thing with which you will make a valiant effort to discredit my entire comment.
Secondly, allow me to apologize for the callous misspelling of a word I used in a previous post for which, quite rightly, you called me to task...that being "timbre"...in a completely uncaring and indiscriminate manner I "typo-ed" it as "tambre".
If it makes any difference to you, Dr. Dan, I removed the batteries from my keyboard for 1/2 hour and contemplated being more careful with my typing...I also here admit the misspelling of the name of Sheldon Adelson and incorporated that offense into the same “time-out”.
You got me again Dr. Dan.
As for your "your condescending comment" comment (sic)...
...quoting my line here ""I did that to defend your right to hold and express the beliefs you apparently subscribe to"" as being “”self -serving twaddle””...
...that, Dr. Dan, I take issue with...for as anyone knows, all citizens entering any branch of the United States Military, swear by oath (and I did) as follows:
I, MGBJAY, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
For purely illustrative purposes here, the part that states "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States" IS in fact, neither a "condescending comment” nor is it "twaddle", as referred to by you.
As a fellow citizen of this great country, Dr. Dan, you are governed by and have your First Amendment rights to “hold and express the beliefs you apparently subscribe to" protected under that Constitution by all who serve, every day of your life.
You see Dr. DAN…it wasn’t that I was defending you and your rights individually as such…but rather the Constitution under which those rights, as a citizen are afforded you, as all of us. You are a beneficiary of the Constitution I swore an oath to defend, so to speak. It was meant like that.
Might want to rein that ego in just a tad Dr. Dan!
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
stfu.gtfo.amf. pita. even ttfn.......@mgb, examples of succinct.
by the way, pretty sure myself or equally exasperated folk gave you repeated wedgies in junior high. thanks for moving to ohio from sb thereby raising the IQ of both areas.
lawdy (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I resent both sides for attempting to make this simple procedural issue a partisan issue. Rules are rules, whoever's running for President has no bearing on this case.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey lawdy...your input has CERTAINLY fortified the conversation...and even from a layman's viewpoint, your writing style suggests at the very least, some serious left hemisphere trauma.
And your "moving to Ohio" comment, surely you cannot be suggesting yourself as an example of the resultant "raised IQ" you mention.
The one thing that is painfully obvious from most of you that have...well, I wouldn't exactly call it riting...nevertheless...very few of you have actually taken on anything that I have written in any meaningful way...
...but attack...minimize...deride...ridicule...criticize...correct my spelling errors (I think there were two)...and express so many other reactionary thoughts that have not a thing to do with actually taking on the issues is in fact exemplary of the majority of you on the left...and precisely the characteristic that causes the desire to continue poking at you. I keep hoping for a different response, but it never changes. You are very predictable left wing acolytes. That is almost redundant.
For the most part - your thoughts as expressed here, appear vacuous, bereft of content, caustic and generally mean spirited intended to do anything BUT deal with the conversation...but if it involves denigrating and/or damaging anothers' character or business for their thoughts, or the expression of those thoughts...you are ALL on top of it!
And all because the people you are directing this prattle towards do nothing more than disagree with you. And in a generally civil manner I might say.
Dan Cathy merely disagrees with you philosophically. Albeit his disagreement is couched in his faith. In his statement, not once did he denigrate or fault anyone or try to cause anyone harm.
I keep expecting one of you to step up to the plate and generate an intelligent and reasonably constructed debate like response...but it hasn't happened yet.
But I remain hopeful...ignorant perhaps, but hopeful nevertheless. (There's an opening for you).
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"well, I wouldn't exactly call it riting..."
Excuse the formatting error, i.e., "...well, I wouldn't exactly call it writing..."
MGBJAY (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh goody, more pointless rants. Educated derelicts are always predictable. Pretty sure I took your lunch money too.
lawdy (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way, Codys removed that picture specifically so you could not use it as a point of reference anymore.
lawdy (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just ignore him Lawdy.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2012 at 4:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ken's got it; and it's such lovely words too from our erstwhile Ohioan, when he writes, "your thoughts as expressed here, appear vacuous, bereft of content, caustic and generally mean spirited"
I have relatives living in Dayton, OH, and they aren't like this.
DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2012 at 5:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)