Witness to Leal Murder Assaulted

incidents like this wont end till the people rise up and do something about it. something big.
First comes awareness and then action and I dont mean marches and protesting. I say we fight fire with fire. We should defend ourselves the only way these villians will understand by violence.
The violent only understand, respect and fear greater violence. If the people rise up as one, we will be unstoppable. Enough is Enough!
SVG_SB
I dont want to see the streets i grew up on become dangerous for the kids who are growing up on the streets now. Santa Barbara is my city, our city we have to take it back.

Yikes, Mr or Ms Stop_Gang_Violence. Violence NEVER ends by violence. Just ain't so. We can't make the streets safer for our children by bringing more of it into their world, and we can't teach them to be civilized human beings if we are being savages ourselves.

We've tried being civilized, we've tried appeasement, we've tried employment, we've tried education, we've tried understanding, we've tried political correctness, we've tried empathy, have I left anything out?
These thugs ONLY understand a few things: Round ups, lock ups, vigilanteism, noithing good.
Why would a thug want to try @ a "good life" when they can achieve their agenda on the weak & powerless who subscribe to a belly-up agenda of submission?
These ain't animals, that would be wronging God's beautiful & innoicent creatures.
tey are tumors on the bowels of society that must be plucked out tactically, surgically & given zero chance to return.
Just to appease the "no on death penalty" crowd, notice, I ain't mentioning the death penalty, even though that's what these tumors deserve.
Life i n prison, away from society & where they can be among their own until death do them part :) henry

Re: Stop_Gang_Violence_sb

Congradulations Sir, You hit the nail on the head. These people are victims of their own belief systems. At some point recently they justified that a person deserved to be killed and took what was in their eyes to be appropriet actions. You sir are of the same mental capabilities.

Knowing this, I will explain in simple terms... Hurting and killing people is bad!

Now get off the computer and go back to watching Batman before you inspire someone to do something stupid like murder.

Just My Opinion,
Respectfully,
JerrySB

Jhern:"Now get off the computer and go back to watching Batman before you inspire someone to do something stupid like murder."
Well, it is a hell of a lot better than turning belly up for these thugs, something that it seems you cherish doing kind sir. Just my humble opinion, respectfully :) henry

Hank is right; we've tried everything. In a nutshell: Since the '60's our society has been in a mode of rebellion and we've never come out of it. The old ways of childrearing and the way kids have been educated were cast aside to try a less painful approach that clearly has failed. In spite of what we see happening there are those who simply refuse to admit that we took things too far and remain in this mode of rebellion.

It starts when one goes into a restaurant and sees kids that run around screaming while the parents do nothing to stop it, and God forbid if anyone complains about it or the parents get angry at the people complaining. Such things didn't happen normally in the past but today it's de riguer. Corporal punishment (which I agree should only be used as last means of discipline) is looked upon as child abuse. In the olden days, God help the kid who told the teacher off, but even when I went to school back in the 70's, the worst that could happen to such a kid was a three-day vacation known as suspension.

We tried bilingual education, and if failed, but even when eighth graders at Franklin school were still English-deficient despite having been there since first grade, it didn't matter; the social activists still hung on to the idea that this was the best way to transition kids into American culture. Once again, the people determined to tear the system down won't acknowledge that their idealism failed.

To Jhern and mtndriver: Whether or not stop_violence_sb is right or wrong is not the point, the point is most people's survival instincts will kick in and if gang bangers are killing people, the targeted groups will amass and their will be more violence. Meanwhile, Barney Brantingham, reflecting the views of this publication, writes his sarcastic article putting down people who believe in the right to own guns. (See article link at end of this post with my comment)

Jhern and mtndriver: Your hearts are in the right place, but your refusal to admit that the throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater mentality of the last few decades has resulted in this problem, (and throw in schoolyard shootings, despite more gun control, as well as road rage) only makes the problem worse and causes more fear and loathing among those who merely want to get home from work without being some forgotten statistic. In other words, reset to default.

http://www.independent.com/news/2009/mar...

P.S. either Helene Schneider not Iya Falcone would dare to address the points I've raised which makes their recent photo-ops seem all the more absurd. By the way Jhern, upon re-reading your post, I find it interesting that you make the sarcastic comment to SGV about watching Batman but sign your post "respectfully". Clearly, you're another person who hides behind the peace and love facade while practicing your own form of preachy intolerance.

"Neither Helene Schneider nor Iya Falcone"

hank and billclausen...one word:

Amen.

All you people need to step aside: Batman wouldn't put up with this crap, and Robin was pretty butch as well.

Hank, Bill and Holly, three words: Small-town racists

HickWatcher you say "small town racists" how are they please explain. I am of Mexican heritage and i do not feel that people are being racists at all. I was born and raised in Santa Barbara. I hate seeing what is happening to this great town. Until Locals stand up and take some pride in the city, Santa Barbara will continue this downward spiral. Might as well live in Lompoc. I have always felt that some people feel that because they are Mexican they HAVE to run with the gangs. If you talk to them you will find out this to be very true. You name yourself Hickwatcher. Hick is a racist term in its own right. So you are no better then them. Until people can face that fact that this is a Mexican problem and do something in those areas what are we to do. I dont see any white on white, black on black, or asian on asian crime in the area. Do you? Its all mexicans

805RunningCrew: Thanks for your support but Hickwatcher is just another fool who runs at the mouth with unsupported conjecture based on their own ignorance. No 805, you cannot reason with a person such as Hickwatcher, and they know that they have no proof so when they run out of ammunition for their argument they cry "racist" in order to get attention. Furthermore, people such as Hickwatcher are all about hate; they hate America and they hate Mexicans too because if they cared at all about Mexicans they would realize it is primarily innocent Mexicans being mowed down in cold blood by these thugs and they would actually try to effect a solution rather than bearing false and refutable witness against others.

Hint to Hickwatcher: This isn't U.C. Berkeley and you are not some Marxist professor and we're not a bunch of terrified self-loathing sophomore students you can terrorize with guilt, so don't expect us to back down anytime soon. All people such as yourself do is add to the problem.

Ugly name-calling is prevalent on the Left as well as Right -- e.g. Jerry Roberts referring to Tony Strickland as "Taliban Tony." Comparing someone who has sincere objections to Democratic spending and tax policies to terrorists is uncalled for.

http://www.independent.com/news/2009/feb...

Or Salud Carbajal condemning those opposed to the DREAM act as "xenophobia at its worst." Many of those opposed to the DREAM act are themselves legal immigrants who resent preferences given to illegals.

http://www.independent.com/news/2008/aug...

Some of the harsh language is also due to people's frustration with the biased coverage in both the local and national media on the issues of immigration and immigration-related crime.

Although the Independent sometimes gives lip service to CAPS, its stories are clearly biased towards PUEBLO's point of view. Open discussion of the adverse impacts of mass immigration and lack of assimilation might actually defuse some of the tension and result in some ideas for solution. Facing up to anti-white racism and anti-semitism in elements of the white progressive and Latino community might also help clear the air.

Also a life long resident I do find it distressing that these types of hardened individuals are walking our streets. But hey, we also had Jesse James Hollywood walking our streets and he appears Caucasian to me. The issue here is not race.

The real culprit here is the dismal failure known as the War on Drugs. These gangsters are the result of the extraordinary money to be made in the distribution of black market products. Stop the madness, End the prohibition now.

It has taken over thirty years of Corporate/Congressional meddling to screw things up this bad. A period or readjustment will be required but the status quo is clearly unacceptable..

There are many laws that cover the types of behaviour mentioned above. The trick is to get them enforced properly, and with the most severe penalties meted out. I think there are enough cops around capable of apprehending the offenders, and the judges should then put the heat on these anti-social and dangerous criminals, no matter what their racial, religious, or philosophical view.
They may think they're getting away with this violent activity, but given the maximum sentence in court will slow them down ... maybe breaking the chain of "gang" activity. It's worth it because what's happening now is just not working.
Anyone who has ever been in, or even near, a jail knows the peculiar aura associated with these sadly necessary places. If these dangerous guys on the street think they're tough wait 'til they do a stretch in the joint. They'll find out the real tough guys are in jail, or even worse, prison, (there's a big difference you know), and it takes a very long time, once you're in, to stop being someone's gofer or girlfriend, sometimes never.
Pay attention folks ... it's getting worse faster, every month. It's not complicated -- DO THE CRIME ... DO THE TIME!

NorwegianIrishPrince

Revisionist: The Independent has a clearly defined ideology reflected by its editorial policy, and the points you raise are as usual, cogent and relevant. Luckily, we live in a free country and in a day and age where those of us who find ourselves opposed to the ideology The Independent espouses can form our own blogs. Such a blog exists at http://santababylonexposed.blogspot.com which we started up in the last week.

How dare the powers at the Independent try to still my wonderful diatribes against the Godless liberals. They have the gaul to tell me what I can or cannot say on this website -- just whose website do they think it is?

Luckily, we live in a free country (emphasis on FREE) which gives access to a Blogger account where I can take my breathlessly insightful commentary and post MY rules, which, you may well expect, will be FREE in the extreme, allowing all viewpoints:

[*from the website*] "Please keep debates respectful; no name-calling or personal stuff. We are all passionate about our beliefs and have a right to share our observations, but name-calling will get you moderated."

There.

That is just SOOOO much different than mean old Independent moderaters saying: "These hot-button issues quickly de-volve into flame wars when direct insults are hurled. If you demonstrate a person's ignorance, rather than simply assert it, we are far less likely to remove a comment. -- WebAdmin"

See what I mean?

And you can be sure my website will clearly reduce any problem I encounter to one of the following:

-- The "rats in a cage" distillation
-- Parents just need to raise kids like it's the '50s
-- The good-old-days were better than even I think
-- Things will be a lot better when we change to the laws of the Bible (preferably Old Testament).
-- "our open border/exploitation of cheap labor/enabling of Mexico's corrupt government policy."

So, please join me and my "friends' in our open forum discussions at:
http://santababies.aretakingourball.andg...

blllclausen: You're pretty slick, but to those with less than perfect vision look carefully and notice the second letter in the person's name above is a lower case "L", and the second letter in mine is an "i". Gotta hand it to you blll, that IS original!

I completely agree with what blllclausen said. By the way, gaul (upper-case G) was an old region in Western Europe, I think you wanted to say "gall".

I would never have the g*** to try to copy someone's name--not ME!

So that conversation went in a strange direction.
All i was trying to get across, is that Gangs are the problem and we as citizens are allowing this problem to grow. Now the Batman comment was a little low and childish, I would have prefered to be compared to a clint eastwood character. Dirty Harry. Haha, but thats just me messing around right there.
In all seriousness let me tell you about a conversation i had with a fellow santa barbarian at work the other day. We were talking about the topic of "Might makes Right" and of course he was on the side of peace and non-violence. "When I asked him what if some one attacked you, would you do anything?" he said of course they are trying to hurt me. Understandable, when asked my next question "what if you witnesses someone else being attacked and hurt, would you intervene." he said no because it would only inspire more violence. Im sorry there is only one word for that, cowardice.
my brother was involved with gangs and to be honest if he wouldnt of quit because of his newborns, well more than likely his picture would have been on the front of the Independent. so I have witnessed the senseless acts of stupidity and violence first hand and I know what we must do to stop this rise in violence and Gangs. We must spread awareness, organize and ACT!!

Oh i forgot to mention, squabbling amonst ourselves is not helping because everyone has their own opinion and I cant change it nor am i trying to. I am just trying to find people of like mind so that maybe we can change something, help somebody and maybe just do some good.

Hickwatcher, no small town racist in hank here @ all. Just a tired, hard working LATINO who wants to see those giving my fellow brethren a bad name get the punishment they deserve.
I don't care what race, ethnicity, religion a criminal is, the fact is if they commit a crime, there HAVE to be consequences, otherwise it is a free-for-all.
If it comes down to that point, well, Hickwatcher (I assume you're 1 of those guilty Whites w/ socialistic tendencies), you ARE the minority & as a Latino who can get off scot-free for commiting a crime you'll be 1st on my list because it is your type that rolls belly up for the thugs.
Open your eyes to the problem & maybe you'll see that just because somebody don't agree w/ you they doesn't make them "racist" by any means :) henry, err, actually enrique, but henry or hank is a lot easier for ya'll to say

hank: Hick is also assuming that you come from a small town; who does he/she know that.

I gave stop_gang_violence_sb as well as yourself a "thumbs up" rating. You two hit the nail on the head.

Once again, human nature is such that if people feel desperate enough, they will resort to violence, and that fact cuts across the ideological spectrum and affects the "at risk" youth who grows up (often very quickly) to carry out a life of violence, or the mob mentality of the people who get sick and tired of being terrorized by the gang culture. All one has to do is look at violent political uprisings in what we Americans refer to as "third-world" countries; hopefully, the gang issue will be dealt with before it gets so bad that people end up taking the law into their own hands, but at the same time people must realize that it is a local--and national problem.

hank: Hick is also assuming that you come from a small town; HOW does he/she know that?

Just a thought, and I know it will be controversial:

SOMEONE SAID: The real culprit here is the dismal failure known as the War on Drugs. ... Stop the madness, End the prohibition now"

That concept deserves serious study. As it stands, there is a bloodbath on the border and people are already fleeing for asylum up here...then what?

Maybe the cartel boys should be granted amnesty and allowed to take a role as :"legit" business men just like when alcohol prohibition ended.

They are businessmen just like the folks who run Enron and the subprime mortgage lenders, only the marijuana and cocaine mafia hombres are probably a hell of a lot more honorable than the crooks in their suits and their ties.

They don't want their kids leading a life of crime anymore than the Corleones did. So let's bring them out of the shadows and get used to remakes of "The Godfather" Southwest style...if it worked for one group why not let the Mexicans take a role in running our society. Por que no?

Like I said, "Just a thought, and I know it will be controversial." I am not necessarily committing to this concept...